Voodoocurse
Joined: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 53
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 10:41 AM
Recorded a short part of a song yesterday, only lead guitar.
It´s recorded with a Blacktop Jazzmaster (with a Surf90 in the bridge position), using both pickups.
Jazzmaster>Red Repeat delay>Reverb unit>66´Bandmaster.
The reverb unit is set 10-10-10. It has the TAD pan and two 12AX7 tubes.
The Bandmaster had volume set to about 3, treble around 7-8 and bass 5-6 i think.
Had a SM57 clone up against the grill and another SM57 clone maybe 5 foot away. The mic by the grill was placed a little off centre.
What can I do to improve my tone? Or is this as good as it gets? Should I add a little bit of overdrive?
Would be very thankful for your thoughts, thanks!
http://www.reverbnation.com/voodooverb?popup_render=%2Fartist%2Fupload_photo%2F1924939%3Ffrom_activate%3Dtrue#!?
Last edited: Sep 12, 2011 10:42:18
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2681
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 10:52 AM
You can start by turning your tank settings down to the neighborhood of 6-6-6 and adjusting from there. If you have it at 10-10-10 it will sound like crap...period.
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 11:57 AM
Not too shabby. What don't you like about the tone? What preamp/interface do you use?
I'm a hobbyist myself, so take the following for what it's worth.
Personally, I find it a bit harsh, kinda gritty highs, but not like tube-amp-OD or tube-reverb-OD, I think (guess) it has to do with the mic itself. Get a real SM57, they're as cheap as basic good tone gets and will serve you a lifetime. Definite improvement over the copies, you'll feel it.
Also experiment with:
1. Different mic positions. Although on paper what you described seems fine, start with liking 1 mic sound, only then add another. And then, check phase relation between them (comb filtering gen get nasty.)
2. Cabinet orientation relating to the room.
those 2 things can change the world.
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Voodoocurse
Joined: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 53
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 12:39 PM
Stormtiger wrote:
You can start by turning your tank settings down to the
neighborhood of 6-6-6 and adjusting from there. If you
have it at 10-10-10 it will sound like crap...period.
Hi,
Thanks for answering! I set the reverb to 10-10-10 just because I experience i don´t get enough reverb or drip if i set it to around 6-6-6. But I´ll do another recording with 6-6-6 setting and see.
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Voodoocurse
Joined: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 53
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 12:40 PM
DreadInBabylon wrote:
Not too shabby. What don't you like about the tone?
What preamp/interface do you use?
I'm a hobbyist myself, so take the following for what
it's worth.
Personally, I find it a bit harsh, kinda gritty highs,
but not like tube-amp-OD or tube-reverb-OD, I think
(guess) it has to do with the mic itself. Get a real
SM57, they're as cheap as basic good tone gets and will
serve you a lifetime. Definite improvement over the
copies, you'll feel it.
Also experiment with:
1. Different mic positions. Although on paper what you
described seems fine, start with liking 1 mic
sound, only then add another. And then, check phase
relation between them (comb filtering gen get nasty.)
2. Cabinet orientation relating to the room.
those 2 things can change the world.
Howdy,
I use a Presonus FP10 and Cubase LE to record.
I can´t put my finger on what I don´t like about the tone... But you might be right about i to be a bit harsh.
And I guess I actually want even more reverb and drip than I get now.
Absolutely gonna test with diffrent mic placing!
What do you think about amp settings?
Thanks!
Last edited: Sep 12, 2011 12:41:35
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LaFleur
Joined: May 20, 2009
Posts: 525
Leipzig
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 12:45 PM
The tone sounds really great to me! But I don't think that it sounds like 10-10-10 on the tank. If I set my tank(Gomez with TAD) to this every single note would sound like pure water. Maybe its something with your tank or pan.
— http://www.reverbnation.com/bangmustang
http://www.facebook.com/bangmustang
https://soundcloud.com/bang-mustang
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aqualadius
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
Posts: 414
Charlotte, NC
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 01:07 PM
I think it sounds like your guitar pickups are out of phase which makes a very thin plonky sound. What guitar/pickup settings are you using? I don't think it sounds bad, it just may be a little heavy in the upper-mid range. Sometimes even strats give off a horrific sonic boost at around 4k that makes you feel like your eardrum has been punctured via a pencil. Most unpleasant.
— Jeremy
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Voodoocurse
Joined: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 53
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 01:10 PM
LaFleur wrote:
The tone sounds really great to me! But I don't think
that it sounds like 10-10-10 on the tank. If I set my
tank(Gomez with TAD) to this every single note would
sound like pure water. Maybe its something with your
tank or pan.
Hi LaFleur,
Thanks!
Yes, I have had problems with the unit. Had it repaired and it sounded better, but not great, after that. Then I kicked it by mistake and it made all kinds of noises.
Wierd, but fter that happend it sounded amazing! I had the dwell at 4-5, mix at 5-6 and tone at 4-5 and it sounded so much better!
Then I had to change the 12AX7 tubes last week. And now it sounds like before. Sigh
Did a sketch recording when it sounded good. That recording is now uploaded so you can hear the diffrence. And as I said - it´s a sketch recording.
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Voodoocurse
Joined: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 53
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 01:15 PM
aqualadius wrote:
I think it sounds like your guitar pickups are out of
phase which makes a very thin plonky sound. What
guitar/pickup settings are you using? I don't think it
sounds bad, it just may be a little heavy in the
upper-mid range. Sometimes even strats give off a
horrific sonic boost at around 4k that makes you feel
like your eardrum has been punctured via a pencil. Most
unpleasant.
Hello,
I use a Blacktop Jazzmaster with the stock neck pickup and a GFS Surf90 in the bridge position.
Both pickups are used.
Out of phase, got to look that up. What can one do about that?
Last edited: Sep 12, 2011 13:15:28
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LaFleur
Joined: May 20, 2009
Posts: 525
Leipzig
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 01:20 PM
Just listend to your new sample and now I can say its definitely your reverb unit. Maybe the 12AX7 are bad? Or its a cold soldier at the tube sockets. The 12AX7 is the phase driver i guess. I think something is not in phase and that eliminates your reverb.
I pretty sure its not the pickup thing.
— http://www.reverbnation.com/bangmustang
http://www.facebook.com/bangmustang
https://soundcloud.com/bang-mustang
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Voodoocurse
Joined: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 53
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 01:34 PM
LaFleur wrote:
Just listend to your new sample and now I can say its
definitely your reverb unit. Maybe the 12AX7 are bad?
Or its a cold soldier at the tube sockets. The 12AX7 is
the phase driver i guess. I think something is not in
phase and that eliminates your reverb.
I pretty sure its not the pickup thing.
I´m gonna take a look at the tube sockets, thanks! 
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 01:40 PM
Wow, what a difference! Kick it again man! Also - nice little tune you got there. Again, it's pretty good to my (inexperienced) ears, overall.
Don't know amp settings, that's too subjective. Interesting idea about the pickups above. How do you like the guitar's sound in your room or on a stage? Maybe compare it with another similar one, just to know where you stand.
Since nothing stands out as really bad, focusing on the problematic areas (to your ears) can be more difficult.
Your recording chain seems adequate enough. Like I said before, the weakest link seems to me to be the mics, and the positions/room.
Don't neglect the obvious, like clean power (try to eliminate as much hiss as you can at the source- check for ground loops; good DC cables; good amp tubes; pickup shielding; interference from AC, PC fans, monitors, refrigerators(!) etc.) and good audio cables.
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aqualadius
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
Posts: 414
Charlotte, NC
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 01:53 PM
The pickups may be wired backwards if they are out of phase. Again it's not a bad sound and if you like what you're hearing in the room but don't like what ends up recorded, there could be a wiring mixup somewhere as well, if you are going out from your presonus to tape maybe? I had a wiring issue like this where everything sounded great at mixdown, but then out to tape was wired reversed, which basically cancels out everything that is in the "center" channel and anything panned left or right stands out more. Perhaps that's not the issue and more just the tone of your guitar which is definitely a retro surf sound.
If it is truly out of phase you can try reversing the phase with a program like audacity. You would split the stereo file into left and right and then reverse the phase on one of them. If the sound gets a lot bigger, warmer, nicer, then you know you have a phase issue. BUT if you're merely plugging your guitar into the presonus and then going to mp3 from cubase, it would have to be in the guitar chain. And you would be hearing live what you are getting in the recording (other than mic/pre/placement coloration)
— Jeremy
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Voodoocurse
Joined: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 53
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 02:02 PM
DreadInBabylon wrote:
Wow, what a difference! Kick it again man! Also - nice
little tune you got there. Again, it's pretty good to
my (inexperienced) ears, overall.
Haha, yeah I probably should kick it again! If not just to get rid of some frustration. 
Thanks for the kind words about the "song"! I´m trying to do some kind of egyptian thing with it. We´ll see how it turns out in the end.
The room i record in might not be ideal - a concrete cellar with like 6 feet from ground to ceiling. And when you mention it, the amps tubes should be checked.
Thank you all for taking the time to help out!
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Voodoocurse
Joined: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 53
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 02:07 PM
aqualadius wrote:
The pickups may be wired backwards if they are out of
phase.
I will definitely look into this! Great tip!
Last edited: Sep 12, 2011 14:08:02
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elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 03:03 PM
Voodoocurse wrote:
Stormtiger wrote:
You can start by turning your tank settings down to
the
neighborhood of 6-6-6 and adjusting from there. If
you
have it at 10-10-10 it will sound like
crap...period.
Hi,
Thanks for answering! I set the reverb to 10-10-10 just
because I experience i don´t get enough reverb or drip
if i set it to around 6-6-6. But I´ll do another
recording with 6-6-6 setting and see.
- Storm Tiger's right: 6-6-6= Dick Dale approved settings. You gonna argue with that?
- Crank up that Bandmaster! They have a notoriously weak output tranny, but do sound great on 7 or 8.
- Ditch the Jazzmaster :fight:!
Seriously, try 1 & 2. You're gonna love it!
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josheboy
Joined: Mar 13, 2009
Posts: 2365
Twin Cities, MN
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 03:19 PM
elreydlp wrote:
- Ditch the Jazzmaster :fight:!
OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!
Last edited: Sep 12, 2011 15:19:40
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elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 03:40 PM
josheboy wrote:
elreydlp wrote:
- Ditch the Jazzmaster :fight:!
OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!
You're right! Actually, that should have been #1. Best single thing a Surf guitarist can do to improve his tone is to MOVE UP to a Strat! Please direct complaints to dick@dickdale.com!
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jonfender
Joined: Mar 09, 2011
Posts: 273
Melbourne FL USA
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 04:54 PM
 Don't know the "math" on this one.......however..one question; "Is this one of the "New" Fender Jazzmaster's ? If so, get a 2 pick-up guitar (Single Coils !! & preferably a "Fender") ...and try it again. "Real" Mustangs, Jaguars, Strats, or Jazzmasters should work real good. Not dissin' the new Fender "amalgamation's" (as it were) too much...just that some of em' seem like "foreign creations" & ya' should try the 2-pu-single coil thing..(I've even done this w/an Eastwood Hi-Flyer)...it should work out OK. Good Luck !!
Last edited: Sep 12, 2011 16:56:09
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ConcreteSurfer
Joined: Dec 14, 2006
Posts: 117
Covina, CA.
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Posted on Sep 12 2011 08:48 PM
It definitely sounds like your reverb tank. With those settings your tone should be totally washed out. I don't think the pan is being driven hard enough and therefore you're not getting that drip. It could very well be the driver tube but I would suspect the pan as a possible suspect. I know kickin the tank is a common practice and makes for some cool sounds, but it can be really hard on those pans..........Small guage wire from the connectors to the coils/ transducers. Even smaller wire on the coils themselves. Start with substituting the driver tube first. I've tried really cheap guitars through an outboard reverb unit and was able to get the drippy reverb sound even with them. I doubt it's the guitar.
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