JohnnyMosrite wrote:

That's the usual result when 'stuff' is banned - it
immediately goes underground and into the black market.
Because demand (that pesky little element of economics)
is still there - and will probably grow. It happened
with booze, happened with drugs, will continue to
happen with tone woods.
Human demand.. it is a bitch.. Am I wrong, Ivan?

Nope, John, it's what drives black markets - and black markets are a huge deal around the world. My personal belief (grounded in my knowledge of economics) is that prohibiting trade is pretty much always a bad idea, and inevitably results in serious unintended consequences, whether we're talking about drugs, prostitution, ebony or ivory. There are almost always better ways to handle these situations - but not ways that will make us feel as good about them. So the right gets its war on drugs and various other sins, the left gets its environmental resources trade bans. None of it works, but both sides feel really good about it....

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
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Was it labor or illegal wood that got them raided?

It was politics.

Be careful following the masses. Sometimes the "M" is silent...........................

never mind...

https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
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Last edited: Sep 02, 2011 13:06:56

I'm out.

Last edited: Sep 02, 2011 09:29:58

All - and especially Ivan..all with a sense of humor that is sorely needed these days..Pick your favorite "banned" good or service.
To wax poetically:

Whenever it is banned
But there is still big demand
Figure it will still be around
But from the market underground

The price will be high
You will sigh and you will cry
Free markets die
When dopey laws apply from on high

If the idea clicks
Lose these lawmaking dicks
With version 2.0 1776
And if it's not to be
Why in hell didn't we
Just pay the tax fee
On the blasted tea
See?

Well it is really about falsification of documents associated with the imported timber .

Was it at Gibson's end or was it at the supplier's end ?
That is what the latest raid was about ?

Gibson has been actively promoting the use of alternative timber and are involved in groups to working top preserve the endangered species.

The leap to claim political influence is involved is the use of the internet to spread misinformation at its worst

Freshwater Surfin'

The Murray Basin
Australia

Windmill.. that's the gag.. the gov't doesn't care if the supplier falsified the paperwork or not. The suppliers are "small potatoes". Gibson is static - located in the U.S and has money. That makes for an easy target. The gov't is obviously hell bent to make it Gibson's problem.

Wouldn't it be intereting to see if some of the popular artists who endorse the Gibson brand put a "GIBSON-AID" concert together to raise money for Gibson's legal defense - kind of like "LIVE-AID" for the farmers? Oh, but wait, that would create a conflict with a lot of their socialist-save-the-whales,dolphins,rainforests(whoops that's jungle)
-except for the tone woods,ivory and bone on their private pricey guitars-beliefs. Can't do that..
Oh well..

J Mo'

IvanP wrote:

Here's a brand new news story about this whole case,
doing a seemingly good job summing up all the issues
and developments, as well as adding a bit new info:

http://www.thetowntalk.com/article/20110904/NEWS/110904005

Armed federal agents?!! Why?? What's next? US marines?:)

Thanks for the url of a that article, Ivan . I read the article.. my thoughts:
1. "rapidly dwindling rain forests" - baloney - kinda like the excrement of el toro of "global warming". But if so, try to convince Brazil, India and the Chinese of that. I'm not aware of any tonewoods coming from the jungles of the U.S.(on accounta-because there aint' none).
2. The Gibson raid “has created fear and uncertainty for all those involved in the manufacturing, distribution and retailing of instruments and increasingly, artists and owners of musical instruments,”
Yep- like I said before - wait for some eco-whacko rockstar to get his or her prized Martin,etc. confiscated by some federal gumshoe agent because he or she can't "prove" where the ebony bridge or rosewood fingerboard came from. Think twice, folks, before that '57 Strat or D'Angelico goes abroad.
3. If you won’t use ebony and someone else will, they won’t buy your stuff,” he said. “A company like Gibson, which is a great brand, has to use things that sell, and ebony and rosewood are what sells.”
This also supports my assertion of what small under the radar luthiers are doing. Yeah, I could plop $3,000-$5,000 for a top of the line Gibson or get a custom built handmade (save a few power tools) guitar made with the "forbidden" (for no goddamn good reason) wood. And since the small luthier doesn't have the overhead of a Gibson, the construction cost would still be (at least for now) lower.

The soft tyranny/police state is walks among us, gang.
J' Mo

This story keeps getting bigger and bigger. I was listening to Coast to Coast last night with George Nory the host of the show, and his guest was Mike Adams from Texas. They were talking about the Gov't shutdown of Gibson and how they want them to outsource the jobs to Madagascar. Amazing stuff. Coast to Coast has 26 million listeners every night.

Craig the Keg
—

Hodad makin' the scene with a six pack.

Hodad makin' the scene with a six pack.

Last edited: Sep 05, 2011 12:57:15