IvanP wrote:

The liberal perspective on this entire case:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/business/2011/09/gibson-ceo-embraces-his-nra-moment/41996/

I'm a little surpised by your use of this word. http://mises.org/liberal.asp

Matt, you're entitled to your opinion, though as an economist I will say that your idea of how a market economy works is completely off and has pretty much nothing to do with reality. But this is not the place to discuss these issues. I will respond to one thing:

Matt22 wrote:

Sure, we'll get the Wall
Street Journal's (Rupert Murdoch owned) incredibly
pro-business slant on things to fire us up

I posted a WSJ journalistic report, not an op-ed piece. You may object to their opinion page, but I've never heard anyone accuse WSJ of having biased reporting outside of their opinion section. In fact, it is widely regarded as one of the best newspapers out there. Do you see any bias in the piece that I posted? I believe it was a straight reporting job.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Matt22 wrote:

OK, I'm going to chime in here because I see some of
the discussion getting pretty ridiculous. I may be in
the minority, judging by the drum beating and
horn-blowing posts here as well as the politically
motivated "sources" being served as evidence. However,
due to the incredibly loose (and almost non-existent)
regulations on big businesses in the United States,
businesses have pretty much had free reign to do
whatever they please.

And, no offense, but you just added to the ridiculousness. A business that would be non-existent without the wood has more interest in its survival than the bureaucrats in Washington. Gibson and every other company is out to make a profit. Giving a company the scarlet letter of "Big Business" doesn't make their motives any different or better than some company making solar panels.

Shawn Martin
http://www.drummerman.net
http://www.youtube.com/GKacedrummerman
http://www.facebook.com/drumuitar

Just like so many do with the Bible, I can find pretty much anything on the Internet that already echoes as well as solidifies my beliefs. How else did people justify slavery and then Jim Crow back in the "old days?" That's all because of the personalization of the Internet these days.

In reality, the media are only as liberal as their conservative backers.

And furthermore, mass media really does breed ignorance.

On the otherhand, I read a variety of viewpoints, both liberal and conservative, and I like to make up my own mind rather than to have somebody else form my opinion for me. Moreover, there is no such thing as something that is "fair and balanced" and especially anything from News Corporation.

My questions to you would be; are you an economist or are you really saying you're a capitalist? Is Adam Smith your Jesus? I would argue that this is the meaning of "economist," especially here in the United States, where the MBA is the ruling philosophy of the day.

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-2020
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

Matt22 wrote:

My questions to you would be; are you an economist or
are you really saying you're a capitalist? Is Adam
Smith your Jesus?

Did Adam Smith die for my sins? No. Was he inerrant? No. So, I'd say he most definitely isn't my Jesus. Do I admire him? Yes, quite a lot. All modern economists, even highly left-leaning ones, owe a huge amount to Smith, since he was unquestionably the founder of modern economics. (And contrary to the perceptions of most laypersons, he was far from a friend of big businesses or even business in general. He was primarily in favor of free competition (something that busineses often try to curtail or even block through the aid of govt) which he showed would serve the interests of the average people more effectively than any other system and is the best way to make a society wealthy.

Am I capitalist? The definition of a capitalist is an owner of capital. I own some capital, in the form of my humble 401k fund, but that's pretty much the extent of it, so stricly speaking, yes, I am a capitalist, but would Karl Marx consider me one? No. Do I favor free markets over other economic systems? Yes, I do.

I hope that clarifies things a bit. Thank you for asking.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Matt22 wrote:

However, you did prove my point as well as answer my
question. Thanks.

Prove what point? It's nice to be able to put people into a neat little box and then not have to consider what they have to say, isn't it?

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Matt, I simply reacted to ýou saying "Thank you for proving my point." I'm not sure how I was supposed to interpret that other than how I did.

Anyway, how does 'knowing where I'm coming from' change any of my arguments or what I've said so far?

I don't mean to come off testy or confrotational (well, maybe slightly the latter). I'm just puzzled.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

IvanP wrote:

Matt, I simply reacted to ýou saying "Thank you for
proving my point." I'm not sure how I was supposed to
interpret that other than how I did.

Anyway, how does 'knowing where I'm coming from' change
any of my arguments or what I've said so far?

I don't mean to come off testy or confrotational (well,
maybe slightly the latter). I'm just puzzled.

No problem, Ivan. I just like to know people's motivation for their beliefs. Knowing that helps me to analyze why you feel the way you do and take that into account. It helps me to understand different perspectives.

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-2020
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

CHRIS DANIEL:  Mr. Juszkiewicz, did an agent of the US government suggest to you that your problems would go away if you used Madagascar labor instead of American labor?

HENRY JUSZKIEWICZ:  They actually wrote that in a pleading.

CHRIS DANIEL:  Excuse me?

HENRY JUSKIEWICZ:   They actually wrote that it a pleading.

CHRIS DANIEL:  That your problems would go away if you used Madagascar labor instead of our labor?

HENRY JUSKIEWICZ:  Yes

Shawn Martin
http://www.drummerman.net
http://www.youtube.com/GKacedrummerman
http://www.facebook.com/drumuitar

And a side bar - The CITES accord from the early 1990s is another dumb joke. Brazilian rosewood is suppose to be a big "no-no" and is only available from "pre(CITES)-existing supplies" (winky,winky)
Well.. 20+ years since, it must have been one hell of a load of "pre-existing" supply. For a price (and brother, it's high), I know of a few independent luthiers who will furnish an instrument with close grain brazilian fretboards. It's most likely black market stuff but who gives a rat's ass. The tree has been cut and it's very dead.. use it's remains. We call it "RECYCLING", don't we. BTW same goes for the ivory taken from the dead elephant.
That's the usual result when 'stuff' is banned - it immediately goes underground and into the black market. Because demand (that pesky little element of economics) is still there - and will probably grow. It happened with booze, happened with drugs, will continue to happen with tone woods.
Human demand.. it is a bitch.. Am I wrong, Ivan?