Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19265
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 11:35 AM
In general, I don't like trios for surf. IMHO, you need at least 2 guitars. I would miss that Astronauts-style damped muted reverb 'boooching' or the frenetic fast rhythm chording. Maybe you could pull it off by multi-tracking on a CD, but live it sounds too thin.
Dual lead guitars are cool too...take The Volcanos and Bambi Molesters for example. I love how the Volcanos interleave lead guitar parts live. It's great fun to watch.
Of course there are obvious trio exceptions: Slacktone, The Surf Coasters, etc. (The Surf Coasters had a rhythm guitar in one incarnation I believe). But those guys are so good anyway.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 12:01 PM
Brian
In general, I don't like trios for surf. IMHO, you need at least 2 guitars. I would miss that Astronauts-style damped muted reverb 'boooching' or the frenetic fast rhythm chording. Maybe you could pull it off by multi-tracking on a CD, but live it sounds too thin...
...of course there are obvious trio exceptions: Slacktone, The Surf Coasters, etc. (The Surf Coasters had a rhythm guitar in one incarnation I believe). But those guys are so good anyway.
brian:
I think I like playing in a trio setup for exactly the reasons you mentioned: the challege of "rhythm and lead" that pushes a trio...but, you are right, often a trio can sound thin... a good trio figures out a way to arrange their tunes to help ameliorate this inherrant weakness.
Dick Dale is another trio that overcomes the "thin" factor... I think he solves his thin-problem with sheer volume...
-dp
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Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19265
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 12:14 PM
Well there is only so much you can do as the lone guitarist (unless you are Dave Wronski or Shigeo Naka). Would you rather hear The Victor with or without rhythm guitar? I think the rhythm guitar is essential to surf music...at least to me. In other genres it is less essential.
I would really like to hear Dick Dale with a backing rhythm guitar player just like the old days. But that would sort of force some discipline into his playing style. I think he prefers the free wheeling trio for improvisational purposes.
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
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BillAqua
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1054
Chicago IL.
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 12:39 PM
WR
BillAqua
I'd be happy with just a 2nd guitarist at this point.
Bill, have you been looking? I would expect the RA's to find one easily.
WR
I think we've tried about 3 rhythm guitarists out all under 30 in the past 3 years. Still no dice.
— "as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"
https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11046
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 01:04 PM
Bill, go younger. Find a young one with enthusiasm and plenty of time to practice on their own and with your guidance you'll have a great 2nd guitarist within 6 months to a year.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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WaimeaBay
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 969
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 02:14 PM
I voted for 5 piece because I can turn the volume knob down on my guitar and people might still believe I am playing.
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BillAqua
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1054
Chicago IL.
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 02:25 PM
DannySnyder
Bill, go younger. Find a young one with enthusiasm and plenty of time to practice on their own and with your guidance you'll have a great 2nd guitarist within 6 months to a year.
Younger is the whole key I guess... and I think that's the actual problem. We are all 25 and 24 so we'd like to keep it close to our age range. However, many of the guitarists under 30 just suck. It's the kids who were in grade school picking up guitars when Nirvana was big that still haven't learned anything.
— "as he stepped into the stealthy night air... little did he know the fire escape was not there"
https://www.facebook.com/reluctantaquanauts/
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DualShowman
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 69
Chicago
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 02:41 PM
Bill and I have, I believe on all three occasions of trying out a rhythm guitarist, went over to the guys amp and twiddle some knobs trying to get a passable sound out of the guitar. I guess what we're really looking for is someone that could pass as a lead player, but knows how to do more that play chords when playing rhythm...
...so my answer is 3.
Matt
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SurfBandBill
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 1487
San Francisco
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 04:08 PM
I function best in the trio form, but I always like the sound of 4 and 5 pieces. I used to play in swing bands too, and miss arranging parts for horns. I think there is a very specific mix that makes trios thrive -
1) Guitarist who can cover a lot of the sonic spectrum (we're not just talking chords and single-note playing, I'm thinking top to bottom of the neck and fretboard as well. Seems most of the time, lead players in band stick to upper registers, while the rhythm player(s) and bassist hold down the low end
2) Somewhat flashy drummer - I'm talking the type of guy who can rumble on the toms, crash the hell out of the cymbals, and do crazy snare work all at the same time. Someone who gets away from the standard "surf beat" we all love, and fills up some more space rhythmically.
3) Great bassist. I'd say trio bass playing is almost harder than trio guitar work. You can't stick to the root-five stuff, but you have to hold the part of rhythm and bass together, so you can't get too flashy either. Basically, I've always thought that in a trio it's the bassist's part to be the launching pad from which the guitarist and drummer take off.
As for the Aquanauts, and your musician search - you just have to keep at it. I know it's gotta be tough without a "surf community" in your area, but post ads on craigslist, put up bulletins on myspace, stuff like that - you'd be surprised who all will pop out of the woodwork. Hell, when Kenan joined the Lava Rats he was 15, but dammit could he play. We in the Rats are all in our mid-20s as well, and I know it can be tough to find competent players who dig what you're in to and actually know what sound you're looking for, but when you find one, DAMN is it rewarding. Remember - if it isn't worth waiting for, it wasn't worth pursuing in the first place.
Of course that's easy for me to say, we had a rhythm guitarist for all of like 3-4 weeks.
~B~
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 05:36 PM
SurfBandBill
I function best in the trio form...
I think that's what I meant...it's the most fun...to be a member of.
Other combinations (4,5, more) do sound great, though.
nice post about 3-piece dynamics, SBB!
-dp
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Jan 19 2007 05:46 PM
WaimeaBay
I voted for 5 piece because I can turn the volume knob down on my guitar and people might still believe I am playing.
this is my favorite response so far!
One time, during their break between sets, I was talking to good old Gerald Sanders (bassist of the Tornadoes of "Bustin' Surfboards" fame)...he was telling the story of his early days on FenderBass (before he knew how to play), when he would run the cord from his bass to a secret location behind his amplifier...in other words, he was playing "unplugged" (silent) electric bass way before it was fashionable.
it seems he actually "played" a few live shows without plugging in! Funny thing is he reports that no one really ever noticed!
eventually, his brother Roly taught him some root note (stuff like E A B D G C F etc)...
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Jan 22 2007 08:41 PM
Sonichris
i voted for 5 piece - I've got a 4 piece now, but IF I could find a 5th guy that played guitar, and a little sax, and possibly Rhodes organ, and sing well, that would be cool.
Funny! I've often thought that just such a mysterious jack of all trades fifth man would be very handy commodity in the surf band world. He should probably also be able to play the maraccas, too. Anyway, I see the concept is one that recurs.
Is there a Fifth Man Theme on the books? It would have to be in 5/4 time.
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HBkahuna
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 1778
Star, Idaho. Formerly lived in Surf City USA.
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Posted on Jan 23 2007 11:24 PM
Bill Swanson of the Eliminators is a very versital 5th man. He plays a killer tenor sax, bongos & various persussion insturments.
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devankdevank
Joined: Jan 17, 2007
Posts: 6
Central PA
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Posted on Jan 24 2007 04:30 PM
My band is technically a 3 peice core. We have other people come on and add extra instruments at live shows though. I guess the organ is being incorperated more as a standard though so maybe we'll be 4 soon.
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Anonymous
Joined: Nov 10, 2000
Posts: -180
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Posted on Jan 26 2007 05:13 PM
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SurfCat
Joined: Oct 04, 2006
Posts: 64
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Posted on Mar 11 2007 12:43 AM
I think a Ventures style four piece surf band with lead, rhythm, bass and drums is ideal for a full instrumental surf sound.
SurfCat
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ToneBoy
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 281
Murfreesboro, TN
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Posted on Mar 11 2007 12:09 PM
In the "ideal" world, I would prefer a 5 piece band. Actually one of the best sounding 5 piece surf bands I've ever heard were the X-Rays of Atlanta in their original lineup. Nathan, the keyboardist, was awesome and the overall sound would just knock your socks off.
However, in the real world, I must agree with earlier comments that a 4 piece band is must easier to deal with logisitically and communications wise.
— Ron (ToneBoy)
The Mariners (1964 to Present) www.myspace.com/themarinersfirstwave
Lonzo & Oscar (1999 to Present) www.lonzoandoscar.net
www.myspace.com/lonzoandoscarcomedy
Billy Henson & Summerstorm (2001 to Present)
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Mustard_Man
Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 100
England
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Posted on Mar 11 2007 02:27 PM
I've voted 3 piece for the following reaons:
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I'm in one..
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Its nice being the only guitarist because, as Zaphod Beeblebrox said, "If there is anything more important than my ego round here I want it caught and shot"..
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Every sound or nuance anyone in the band makes has a vital effect on the finished product, which makes it more exciting to play. Larger bands I've played with in the past have had a tendency just to use the extra instruments to just 'fill the sound out' rather than truly adding dynamics.
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Our band has an irrational obsession with chanign time signatures in songs. It takes us long enough to get these changes tight with three, I think I'd have had a nervous breakdown rehearsing them with more by now..
that said, wouldn't be the same without the occasional extra instrumet joining in occasionally.
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diceophonic
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 2174
PacNW (Vancouver, Wa U.S.A.)
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Posted on Mar 11 2007 03:36 PM
4 piece band is perfect + our lovely Go Go dancer  2 guitars, bass and drums
leave the wall of sound to The Astronauts of the 60s and Satan's Pilgrims 
— -Kyle
Beyond The Surf YouTube channel
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Redd_Tyde
Joined: Apr 23, 2006
Posts: 260
Oceanside, CA
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Posted on Mar 11 2007 03:41 PM
If it is just instro - 4 piece is great. Two guitars make a much stronger dynamic in my opinion.
My band is a 5 piece. We have vocals that also act on the theremin and keys. We also have extended members if you count the GO-GO girls. THe problem with a 5 piece band is that most small clubs aren't very spacious and we run into a lot of problems of how to set up onstage. In most cases we are spilling out onto the floor. One of the other reason to why I went wireless recently. If there is a tall stage and it is small, life becomes very crowded becuase we are not small guys.
RT
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