thoughts about how to do a online raffle for the SG101 convention guitar donation

Brian

Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19265
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
United States

Posted on May 13 2011 09:50 AM

Because it's against the law?

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Last edited: May 13, 2011 09:51:21

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Tuck

Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
12 Calendar Pins

Posted on May 13 2011 02:15 PM

Yeah. I wouldn't think adding some fixed item of real value to the raffle chance part would fix things. The tickets are already valuable compost, right? Also, being non-profit is not quite the same thing as being officially registered as being non-profit and complying with the regulations for that status might be a bit of a pain. This has a certain fun is illegal catch 22 feel to it.

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Noel

Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
United States

Posted on May 13 2011 03:05 PM

California law is pretty clear about qualifying as a non-profit organization. We have the same problem here in PA. Most things covered by law are defined as entirely illegal unless certain specific exceptions are met.

I read your statutes. Surfguitar101.com can be reorganized to include a separate complying educational non-profit entity, or it can become an entirely non-profit organization. This could be done by next year's convention. It's how the Philadelphia Folksong Society operates.

FYI here: http://www.pfs.org/

My wife's a committee chair of the Philadelphia Folk Festival, and this link will give you some idea how they operate and what they have accomplished.

Almost by definition, surf music qualifies as American folk music. Perhaps a band that travels (or is) out here can try to peform at next year's festival. This link explains how to apply to perform at the festival: http://www.pfs.org/article/submitting-perform-folk-festival

For example, Los Straitjackets is performing at MusikFest out here in August just before the PFS Folk Festival. They COULD also have been scheduled to be at the Folk Festival. Now that would be something. But anyway, SG101 may become a non-profit if it jumps through enough hoops in California law.

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This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: May 13, 2011 15:48:57

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spskins

Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3755
tn
United States

Posted on May 13 2011 04:04 PM

I'm part Shawnee, would I be able to hold the auction?
OR
Around where I live, casinos have to be floating on the water to be legal, what if we filled a kiddie pool with water and Jeff floated on a raft while the auction was held? That way it is not being held on California soil.

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Brian

Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19265
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
United States

Posted on May 13 2011 04:21 PM

How about we just delete this thread and if/when a raffle occurs we all act surprised?

But I love Ted's idea.

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Site dude - S3 Agent #202
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Last edited: May 13, 2011 16:21:58

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tdsurf

Joined: Aug 13, 2007
Posts: 409
1 News Pin

Posted on May 13 2011 05:57 PM

Here's an old trick, sell ping pong balls.

"$5 for a ping pong ball and we'll include a raffle ticket for blankety blank".

There is absolutely nothing illegal about selling ping pong balls... or throwing in a freebie along with it

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spskins

Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3755
tn
United States

Posted on May 13 2011 07:34 PM

Goofyfootinmouth wrote:

Why don't you sell Surf Guitar 101 stickers and
included as a bonus will be the Raffle ticket. Better
yet sell a T shirt and that could include the raffle
ticket. Then someone will have to buy T-shirts for all
of their friends and family. Can a raffle ticket that
is free with a purchase really be considered gambling.
And everyone knows and trusts paypal. Wider blanket of
sales.

This actually sounds like the best idea. Paypal doesn't need to know it's for a raffle. Just mark "personal" and "other". I don't think the cops will come after us. Oh wait, it is Orange County...

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goober

Joined: Jan 12, 2007
Posts: 317
California
1 Calendar Pin

Posted on May 13 2011 10:59 PM

Raffles are considered gambling and are illegal in California under Penal Code Section 320.5. The exception applies to registered non-profit orgainizations, and 90% of the proceeds have to go to a registered charity.

Door prizes are not illegal, but could be deemed a raffle if the entry fee reflects an amount charged for a chance to win a valuable prize, rather than the value of the event. So if you charge $50 for entry or a sticker, plus a chance to win an expensive guitar, this could be deemed a raffle.

An auction, including a silent auction [sealed/secret bids] for donated items is not illegal.

A prize for the winner of a contest [best new song, most authentic surfer "look," Dick Dale look-alike contest, ugliest tatoo, etc] is not illegal, but the judges could be lynched if they show favoritism.

goober

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Goofyfootinmouth

Joined: Apr 09, 2011
Posts: 82

Posted on May 13 2011 11:00 PM

I bought a couple of tickets for the Neko Case raffle for 826 National recently. It is a Californian based children's educational non profit. Maybe they could work something out with you. They are a good cause and have a short history with musicians. Of coarse this would be a big hassle for the guys organizing this and the splitting a small kitty with someone other than the musicians, oh and my losing streak with their raffles when it comes to guitars and such. Here is their rules page from their raffle that happened a few months ago. www.nekocase.com/auction/rules.htm
Yes I do like some Neko Case. Some of the Sadies and I believe Brian Connelly have played with her.

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LHR

Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: 2123
The jungle
Costa Rica

Posted on May 16 2011 09:57 AM

Hate to be a bummer, because it is a great cause, but I've held and been involved with plenty of raffles before for Section 501(c)3 charities, and this is just my $.02 worth: I would not sell raffle tickets online under any circumstances or guise. For lots of pretty obvious reasons.

Brian is right about this thread, IMO.

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SSIV

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bigtikidude

Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25535
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
United States

Posted on May 17 2011 09:50 PM

Well since it is pretty obvious that doing an online raffle is out of the question.
Do people have any other ideas or options of how I can do this?

I want to keep it like a raffle and kinda cheap.
and fun.

If I just put it up on ebay, that takes all of the fun out of it.
but would bring in a lot of money.

If I do a raffle just at the Convention.
its fun and a good chance to win.
But not much money comes in that way.

what do I do?

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Jeff(bigtikidude)

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CaptainSpringfield

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 4387
Under the Sun
United States

Posted on May 18 2011 01:27 AM

Where's the problem in this?

Person A: "Are you going to the SG101 convention?"
Person B: "Yes."
Person A: "When you're there, can you buy a raffle ticket for me?"
Person B: "Sure."

—

That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.

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LHR

Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: 2123
The jungle
Costa Rica

Posted on May 18 2011 05:13 AM

Warren: a proxy seems like a really sound idea.

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SSIV

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Brian Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 19265 Des Moines, Iowa, USA	Posted on May 13 2011 09:50 AM Because it's against the law? — Site dude - S3 Agent #202 Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me "It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea Last edited: May 13, 2011 09:51:21 Top
Tuck Joined: Sep 02, 2006 Posts: 3166 Denver, CO	Posted on May 13 2011 02:15 PM Yeah. I wouldn't think adding some fixed item of real value to the raffle chance part would fix things. The tickets are already valuable compost, right? Also, being non-profit is not quite the same thing as being officially registered as being non-profit and complying with the regulations for that status might be a bit of a pain. This has a certain fun is illegal catch 22 feel to it. Top
Noel Joined: Mar 15, 2011 Posts: 8528 Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.	Posted on May 13 2011 03:05 PM California law is pretty clear about qualifying as a non-profit organization. We have the same problem here in PA. Most things covered by law are defined as entirely illegal unless certain specific exceptions are met. I read your statutes. Surfguitar101.com can be reorganized to include a separate complying educational non-profit entity, or it can become an entirely non-profit organization. This could be done by next year's convention. It's how the Philadelphia Folksong Society operates. FYI here: http://www.pfs.org/ My wife's a committee chair of the Philadelphia Folk Festival, and this link will give you some idea how they operate and what they have accomplished. Almost by definition, surf music qualifies as American folk music. Perhaps a band that travels (or is) out here can try to peform at next year's festival. This link explains how to apply to perform at the festival: http://www.pfs.org/article/submitting-perform-folk-festival For example, Los Straitjackets is performing at MusikFest out here in August just before the PFS Folk Festival. They COULD also have been scheduled to be at the Folk Festival. Now that would be something. But anyway, SG101 may become a non-profit if it jumps through enough hoops in California law. — This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got. Last edited: May 13, 2011 15:48:57 Top
spskins Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 3755 tn	Posted on May 13 2011 04:04 PM I'm part Shawnee, would I be able to hold the auction? OR Around where I live, casinos have to be floating on the water to be legal, what if we filled a kiddie pool with water and Jeff floated on a raft while the auction was held? That way it is not being held on California soil. — http://www.satanspilgrims.com http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553 https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/ http://www.surfyindustries.com Top
Brian Joined: Feb 25, 2006 Posts: 19265 Des Moines, Iowa, USA	Posted on May 13 2011 04:21 PM How about we just delete this thread and if/when a raffle occurs we all act surprised? But I love Ted's idea. — Site dude - S3 Agent #202 Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me "It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea Last edited: May 13, 2011 16:21:58 Top
tdsurf Joined: Aug 13, 2007 Posts: 409	Posted on May 13 2011 05:57 PM Here's an old trick, sell ping pong balls. "$5 for a ping pong ball and we'll include a raffle ticket for blankety blank". There is absolutely nothing illegal about selling ping pong balls... or throwing in a freebie along with it — Sound of the Surf, the movie Facebook SOTS Top
spskins Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 3755 tn	Posted on May 13 2011 07:34 PM Goofyfootinmouth wrote: Why don't you sell Surf Guitar 101 stickers and included as a bonus will be the Raffle ticket. Better yet sell a T shirt and that could include the raffle ticket. Then someone will have to buy T-shirts for all of their friends and family. Can a raffle ticket that is free with a purchase really be considered gambling. And everyone knows and trusts paypal. Wider blanket of sales. This actually sounds like the best idea. Paypal doesn't need to know it's for a raffle. Just mark "personal" and "other". I don't think the cops will come after us. Oh wait, it is Orange County... — http://www.satanspilgrims.com http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553 https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/ http://www.surfyindustries.com Top
goober Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Posts: 317 California	Posted on May 13 2011 10:59 PM Raffles are considered gambling and are illegal in California under Penal Code Section 320.5. The exception applies to registered non-profit orgainizations, and 90% of the proceeds have to go to a registered charity. Door prizes are not illegal, but could be deemed a raffle if the entry fee reflects an amount charged for a chance to win a valuable prize, rather than the value of the event. So if you charge $50 for entry or a sticker, plus a chance to win an expensive guitar, this could be deemed a raffle. An auction, including a silent auction [sealed/secret bids] for donated items is not illegal. A prize for the winner of a contest [best new song, most authentic surfer "look," Dick Dale look-alike contest, ugliest tatoo, etc] is not illegal, but the judges could be lynched if they show favoritism. goober Top
Goofyfootinmouth Joined: Apr 09, 2011 Posts: 82	Posted on May 13 2011 11:00 PM I bought a couple of tickets for the Neko Case raffle for 826 National recently. It is a Californian based children's educational non profit. Maybe they could work something out with you. They are a good cause and have a short history with musicians. Of coarse this would be a big hassle for the guys organizing this and the splitting a small kitty with someone other than the musicians, oh and my losing streak with their raffles when it comes to guitars and such. Here is their rules page from their raffle that happened a few months ago. www.nekocase.com/auction/rules.htm Yes I do like some Neko Case. Some of the Sadies and I believe Brian Connelly have played with her. Top
LHR Joined: Aug 23, 2006 Posts: 2123 The jungle	Posted on May 16 2011 09:57 AM Hate to be a bummer, because it is a great cause, but I've held and been involved with plenty of raffles before for Section 501(c)3 charities, and this is just my $.02 worth: I would not sell raffle tickets online under any circumstances or guise. For lots of pretty obvious reasons. Brian is right about this thread, IMO. — SSIV Top
bigtikidude Joined: Feb 27, 2006 Posts: 25535 Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.	Posted on May 17 2011 09:50 PM Well since it is pretty obvious that doing an online raffle is out of the question. Do people have any other ideas or options of how I can do this? I want to keep it like a raffle and kinda cheap. and fun. If I just put it up on ebay, that takes all of the fun out of it. but would bring in a lot of money. If I do a raffle just at the Convention. its fun and a good chance to win. But not much money comes in that way. what do I do? — Jeff(bigtikidude) Top
CaptainSpringfield Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 4387 Under the Sun	Posted on May 18 2011 01:27 AM Where's the problem in this? Person A: "Are you going to the SG101 convention?" Person B: "Yes." Person A: "When you're there, can you buy a raffle ticket for me?" Person B: "Sure." — That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it. Top
LHR Joined: Aug 23, 2006 Posts: 2123 The jungle	Posted on May 18 2011 05:13 AM Warren: a proxy seems like a really sound idea. — SSIV Top

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thoughts about how to do a online raffle for the SG101 convention guitar donation