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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Recording Corner »

Permalink iPad as a DAW?

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I haven't had much of an urge for an iPad until Garageband (and iMovie) came out recently. I'm interested in it as a drum machine and recorder/mixer mostly. Anyone using it yet, or thinking about getting it specifically for music? Any impressions? It just seems like a nice setup for hobbyists, especially if you get the stand, the iRig adapter, and a good microphone like the Blue Yeti. Tons of videos and reviews out there, here's one of them:

http://www.macprovideo.com/blog/ipad-2/garageband-ipad-2-live-studio-musicians

Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio

$170-$500 more for a Mac Book that is much more powerful, has more space, more capabilities, easier to use(keyboard), more potential(plug-ins, 3rd party), and you will own 3-4 times longer.

I don't think tablets are the thing yet. Not powerful enough, lots of upgrades/innovations due to come. Which makes investing now not as great an idea. Where is the handwriting recognition? Too weak. Microsoft's Courier concept is where I want to see tablets go. Even Microsoft abandoned it when the iPad came out. Big smartphones... Not tablet computers.

So, my suggestion is still to not get a iPad. Yes, that guy ran a keyboard setup live, but what if you want to have playback, soft synths, and midi clocking. I don't think the iPad2 is going to handle that. If Garageband can even do any of that(I used Garageband for two days until I decided I needed to spend more money to get something that was worth using).

Good points there, Jake; it looks like a new Macbook would definitely be $500 more though, since I was just looking into the base $499 iPad 2 model. And if we're now talking a $1K price point, it would not be worth it for me... I'd probably just continue using my still-powerful-but-huge PC. It just looks like this could be pretty cheap for what it does and downright fun to record on. (And convenient... I could put the drum machine, field recorder and maybe even the video recorder I currently use in closet.) Re: Garageband, I've never used it, but I do use Audacity right now, so it probably wouldn't feel too limited for my own simple requirements. I'll probably just wait a bit for the iPad 3 (or any real competition) anyway, just curious if anyone had jumped on this bandwagon yet.

Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio

Jake, I thought I was the only guy in the world who didn't like Garageband.

Glad to hear it! That program is absolute garbage.

The issue with it is that it pretends to be a lot more than it is. "Oh Man! Look at all of the stuff it has!" But it is all cheap crap. That is how Apple works in everything save for their engineering, as of late.

Apple makes stuff that is absolute middle of the ground. It affordable and does the job, but it is made so everyone can use it. Apple has gotten rid of any learning curve. This prevents many people from understanding or getting good at anything. It results in pure drivel. Yet that is their genius and results in their success in sales.

So you're saying "Garbageband" would be a more accurate name for this application? Laughing

Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio

I think you have to take some of the things that Jake says with a grain of salt...

"Apple makes stuff that is absolute middle of the ground. It affordable and does the job, but it is made so everyone can use it. Apple has gotten rid of any learning curve. This prevents many people from understanding or getting good at anything. It results in pure drivel."

If your aim is to get better as a musician/guitarist/composer by recording yourself at home then I don't see how a solution that does the job, is affordable and can be used by everyone isn't a good thing. How this results in pure drivel escapes me.

I myself don't want to have to learn the technical mumbo-jumbo of audio engineering. I just want to easily and accurately record my own music. Yes, there are solutions that have more "professional" cachet, but is that really what you want/need?

I've always seen the role of the computer in the arts as that of assistant, taking the craft out of process and letting you simply deal with the idea.

I agree on many of those points, cband... the digital age has definitely created a new market segment of prosumers, where before, there were only consumer products (tape recorders and 4/8-tracks) and the type of professional-grade products only studios would have or even know how to use. I suppose Apple products are "dumbed down" to a degree, but like you said, I'm intrigued with the idea of not getting wrapped up in the tool, and just spending the time concentrating on the idea instead. (Weird that I'm saying that, because I've been building my own computers since the 90's, and even used to routinely install Linux on them back when that actually meant something; guess I'm just getting older and less willing to struggle!)

Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio

Exactly. Do you know how many people would have killed for an 8 track recorder back when they were growing up? Now any teen with an iPhone and an iRig/iRig Mic can record his ideas and practice mic technique and editing on the go! Its not here to replace Desktops and DAWs its a new segment of technology fast growing with over 15 million iPads sold in a year! I wonder how many the iPad 2 will end up selling.

Looks like Alesis has built your solution -

There's more info HERE

Bill S._______
image

HELLDIVER on Facebook

SWEET! I'm still on the fence about getting one, but that's intriguing indeed.

Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio

I've been using an iPad since the first one came out and for somethings it's great and others, don't so much.

One of the most useful apps on it for me is put out by MOTU and it's a complete control surface app for Digital Performer. You can arm tracks, add takes, complete navigation all from the touch surface of an iPod Touch, iPhone or an iPad.

For recording, ala looper style, the problem is getting the audio in and out, while listening to your overdubs. I tried a number of apps and some are restricted to recording strictly through the built in mic. So you play and monitor with half a headphone. I don't like this style remember to check for audio in/out and monitoring.

Actually getting the audio in and out is what you have to be aware of. Apogee now has an audio interface (Jam 24bit/44) for the iPad and you can work with guitar levels.

I've used an iRig but apart from the fact the thing feels like an expensive pill bottle with wires, the sound seems limited to 16 bit, maybe 44Khz. It worked find with Amplitude though if emulators fit your needs.

I was using an ancient (in computer years) iMic USB interface from Griffin with the iPad camera connection kit. So line level in, headphone out, worked quite nicely.

For recording, I used a program on the iPad called MultiTrackDaw. I tried a rather pricey one called StudioTracks, but it's limited to mic recording only.

If being "wired" to the audio interface doesn't work for you, I've used the Sennheiser Freeport wireless from the guitar to iPad and done recording that way too.

As from the control surface and recording, I've also used some MIDI programs (S1 MIDI Trigger) so I can send MIDI commands (usually to control bit of kit or a DAW). Works pretty slick.

I find the iPad one of those things that I just bought for the heck of it and the longer I have it the more uses I can find for it.

Mel

Mel

Thanks, looks like you've explored this setup really well... the Alesis dock that Bill posted a link to seems to address many of those interface issues, and is supposed to work with most of the available music apps (at least they say "virtually any app in the App Store"):

image

For $170-$200 this really looks like a must if you're even thinking about recording on an iPad.

Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio

morphball wrote:

Thanks, looks like you've explored this setup really
well... the Alesis dock that Bill posted a link to
seems to address many of those interface issues, and is
supposed to work with most of the available music apps
(at least they say "virtually any app in the App
Store"):

For $170-$200 this really looks like a must if you're
even thinking about recording on an iPad.

When I was really working on using the iPad for a DAW (more as a looper really) the Alesis dock was no doubt on the drawing board.

The first real interface I seen was the Apogee Jam (it was in the video for the intro of the iPad 2). Since Apogee is well known for it's D/A A/D converters I wasn't surprised to see they were offering 24/44 quality.

Thus when I first heard of the Alesis iO Dock, I wanted to check out its specs as well. Darned if I can find them on the Specs tab at the Alesis web site so maybe it's too new? No idea if it's 16 or 24 bit but for in/out they got it covered and it's in a very nice package.

Mel

Mel wrote:

I've been using an iPad since the first one came out
and for somethings it's great and others, don't so
much.

One of the most useful apps on it for me is put out by
MOTU and it's a complete control surface app for
Digital Performer. You can arm tracks, add takes,
complete navigation all from the touch surface of an
iPod Touch, iPhone or an iPad.

For recording, ala looper style, the problem is getting
the audio in and out, while listening to your overdubs.
I tried a number of apps and some are restricted to
recording strictly through the built in mic. So you
play and monitor with half a headphone. I don't like
this style remember to check for audio in/out and
monitoring.

Actually getting the audio in and out is what you have
to be aware of. Apogee now has an audio interface (Jam
24bit/44) for the iPad and you can work with guitar
levels.

I've used an iRig but apart from the fact the thing
feels like an expensive pill bottle with wires, the
sound seems limited to 16 bit, maybe 44Khz. It worked
find with Amplitude though if emulators fit your needs.

I was using an ancient (in computer years) iMic USB
interface from Griffin with the iPad camera connection
kit. So line level in, headphone out, worked quite
nicely.

For recording, I used a program on the iPad called
MultiTrackDaw. I tried a rather pricey one called
StudioTracks, but it's limited to mic recording only.

If being "wired" to the audio interface doesn't work
for you, I've used the Sennheiser Freeport wireless
from the guitar to iPad and done recording that way
too.

As from the control surface and recording, I've also
used some MIDI programs (S1 MIDI Trigger) so I can send
MIDI commands (usually to control bit of kit or a DAW).
Works pretty slick.

I find the iPad one of those things that I just bought
for the heck of it and the longer I have it the more
uses I can find for it.

Mel

I just got an iPod touch and I totally know what you mean. I hardly use it as an iPod for music any more as I use it for apps now. Smile

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