Most will disagree with me, but I like "Karen" and other cheezy vocals of the time. It's part of the whole early 60s surf culture. If you think the 1st wave was all about testosterone-fueled double picking and drum rolls faster than the speed of light, you're missing out. We have the luxury to look back and base a genre on what we hand pick as "good" and "bad". In today's world, its more "in your face" to do a song like "Karen" than a blistering version of "Miserlou". I think Johnny would agree. "Black Denim" and "My Little Bike" are great Surfaris vocals too, produced by Gary Usher in the Super Stocks/Hondells style.
But I'm a cornball.

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skeeter
Gotta admit, I've got a soft spot for a lot of that cheezy crap too.
"Hot Rod High" is another classic.
We need to start a new thread: "Cornball surf vocals"

I also enjoy surf vocal tunes. As Ted mentioned, it was part of pop culture of that era. When I first became interested in surf music, the impression I got (right or wrong) was that there were 2 kinds of surf music, instrumental and vocal. Bands like the Trashmen, Astronauts and Surfaris did both. That's kinda stuck with me. I like a full-throttle reverb-drenched instro as much as anybody here but I also like Gary Usher. For me, they're complements.
Admittedly, "Karen" does require a high level of lactose tolerence.

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What about a blistering version of Karen?

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spskins
If you think the 1st wave was all about testosterone-fueled double picking and drum rolls faster than the speed of light, you're missing out. We have the luxury to look back and base a genre on what we hand pick as "good" and "bad". In today's world, its more "in your face" to do a song like "Karen" than a blistering version of "Miserlou".

Very well said!

I agree with you guys. If I'm going to be listening to "surf music" for an extended period of time I like to hear a vocal sprinkled in to the mix and I think it sits well with getting into the mood of the genre. Whether it be something like the Beach Boys/Usher type harmonies or the Pyramids doing Koko Joe.

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(Sorry to go off-topic, Brian. Maybe these last few posts should be moved to a new thread.)

You know, these last few messages got me thinking a bit further (while I'm supposed to be working! Nothing like procrastination...). Though I love, LOVE traditional surf music, and have studied it very closely and have tried to recreate it in my two bands, I never felt like I fit in - or were accepted - in the 'trad' club. I guess I just never learned the secret handshake! But it occured to me that maybe here is the reason why. I'm going to speculate (and generalize in the process) here. The super-trad guys - and you know who you are - are into this music due to some sense of nostalgia for the time and place of the first wave. They are into the whole package - the looks, the haircuts, the cars, the movies, the hi-fis, etc. They see the music inescapably tied to that moment in time, and they want to play surf music in order to temporarily time-warp to Orange County circa '63. (Check out the Daytonas' "I Love California" for that - I love that song! The yearning is palpable!)

My perspective is that though I enjoy that stuff to an extent I really don't have any passion for it, or sometimes even interest. I suspect there are many on here that feel like I do - we love the instrumental surf music on its own merits, not because the cars were really cool or the pointy bras were a turn-on. To me, the Usher-style vocals are firmly tied to the early-sixties and will never be able to be separated from that time and place. But the surf instrumentals DO transcend the time and place. They are timeless and (relatively) widely speak to people all over the world. This is demonstrated by the fact that there are bands on almost every continent that play instrumental surf music, and many that do it REALLY well (the only continent that has not produced any surf bands I know of is Africa - but they have their own problems).

I think good old Dick, the Astronauts, Eddie & the Showman, etc., stumbled on something that they probably don't even understand to this day. The surf instrumentals have a power and beauty and darkness (and sometimes happiness) that is simply staggering (and though we are in a tiny minority globally, there are clearly many other people out there that think this, as evidenced by the many surf bands around the world). Maybe that's why I think of myself as (mostly) a trad-head, in a sense that introducing more modern elements into this music seems to dilute the timelessness of surf instros - those 'modern' elements are always tied to the era that defines them as modern. I mean, try to listen to some of the early eighties surf music that self-consciously tried to bring in a new-wave influence into surf - it sounds dated and goofy.

So, maybe this is too simplistic and I'm gonna get raked over the coals, but it seems to me that this is how it breaks down for the last 15 years of the surf scene: the super-trad (trad-nazi) types - nostalgia for the '61-'65 period, playing and listening to surf music as a way to recapture that time; the non-trad people, whether prog or not, mostly interested in the timeless/placeless instrumentals due to their innate beauty and power.

I greatly enjoy the myth of early sixties California. It's important to have myths. But that's not what made me love surf music. Hearing DD's "The Wedge" and "Hava Nagila" and the rest of "King Of Surf Guitar" CD on Rhino and "Squad Car" on the "Legends of Guitar - Surf" CD, also on Rhino, that's what did it. I suspect there are many others on here like that. It IS about about a 'blistering version of Miserlou,' rather than being 'in your face', as Ted put it. I truly love that blistering version of Miserlou and everythng that comes with it - that's why I do it and why I still listen to surf music. Not to be in anybody's face, or be a rebel, or recapture a time long since gone.

Sorry to go on so long...
Ivan

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Last edited: Jan 11, 2007 13:50:31

Brian
What about a blistering version of Karen?

I'll get to work on that. Maybe Karen will dig me.

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IvanP
Ferenc, I must laugh as I envision Pollo singing "Karen"

How do you think I woo'd my wife?

IvanP
Satan's Pilgrims had an opportunity to sing Usher-style vocals, the Surfites do as well - and Pollo Del Mar, of course! So, where are they?

2 quick responces- First, I sing very, very badly, (that was the #2 reason to be in an instrumental band). Second, we wrote one vocal song- a very cheesey love song for Erik Estrada, and of course, people yell for it because they know the title.

IvanP
Ferenc, I think your argument that if you cut out several parts of the genre, you cut out much of the audience simply isn't valid. It assumes 'ceteris paribus' conditions - all other things being equal.

I know I was oversimplifying, but on a base level, if you only play testosterone fueled music, you will only appeal to a testosterone fueled audience.
Obviously, if you do 60s style vocals, you are not going to appeal to people who don't like nostalgia. However, there are lots of people who do like nostalgia or a retro lifestyle (say, the tiki crowd) who might be more interested in surf bands if they had vocals.
To me, this is a strange argument, because while I like surf vocals, I don't need it to enjoy a band at all.

IvanP
I think good old Dick, the Astronauts, Eddie & the Showman, etc., stumbled on something that they probably don't even understand to this day. The surf instrumentals have a power and beauty and darkness (and sometimes happiness) that is simply staggering

Well said. What a weird mix surf music is. I always come back to this quote by Frank Zappa from 1968:

FrankZappa
"We can also look forward to a resurgance of surf music in the future... The type of music; the style of music may return. And there were some very interesting things happening harmonically in the surf/hot-rod type of rock and roll music."

Klas
To us, it has never been about having great success but rather about doing something we dig...

Well, I hope there is one thing we can all agree on- the realization that we do this because we love it. Nobody is playing either trad-surf or modern-surf looking for any kind of success. It is simply too unpopular on any level.
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(I think good old Dick, the Astronauts, Eddie & the Showman, etc., stumbled on something that they probably don't even understand to this day. The surf instrumentals have a power and beauty and darkness (and sometimes happiness) that is simply staggering (and though we are in a tiny minority globally, there are clearly many other people out there that think this, as evidenced by the many surf bands around the world). Maybe that's why I think of myself as (mostly) a trad-head, in a sense that introducing more modern elements into this music seems to dilute the timelessness of surf instros - those 'modern' elements are always tied to the era that defines them as modern. I mean, try to listen to some of the early eighties surf music that self-consciously tried to bring in a new-wave influence into surf - it sounds dated and goofy.
Ivan

Well said Ivan.
I guess I’m a trad-nazi in most people’s eyes.
I build Hot Rods and Custom cars. My house is filled with mid-century modern furniture. I collect records, etc...
All that stuff is great and I love it but to me the SOUND of the music has always taken top priority over all of it.

I like the trad take on things because I love the sound of the old records that got me into listening to and searching out surf, swing, rockabilly, rnb, garage, what ever...

I'm not a fan of the "modern" slant of any of those genres mainly because it doesn't retain the right ingredients to my ear.

I'm not saying any of it sucks or the "mod' bands aren't talented or that I don't even enjoy some of it.
I just like the trad sound.

For example, I'd rather hear some one with limited skills (hey birds of a feather) play Bustin' Surf Boards with a fender guitar though a fender amp with a fender tank (or an echofonic if they really want the Tornados sound :wink:)
Then hear some one with master technique fly through The Wedge complete with Eddie V tapping on a Paul Reed Smith plugged into a Marshall.
The old adage "its what you leave out" comes to mind.

This is also a very simplistic take on it all but hopefully kind of explains my view.

Now about the handshake, we’ll get Bill to show it to ya next time your in Chi-town

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A lot of interesting comments, but I'll just reply to one:

PolloGuitar
I know I was oversimplifying, but on a base level, if you only play testosterone fueled music, you will only appeal to a testosterone fueled audience.

Metallica has done OK, don't you think? Or Nirvana? Of Ozzy? There's clearly a HUGE audience out there for testestorone-fueled music, judging by success of many hard rock, grunge, heavy metal and punk bands.

The biggest handicap of our music is not the testestorone levels - it's the lack of vocals. We all know this. But changing that would require fundamentally altering what it is we're doing - and what we most love about this music.

Ivna

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