CaptainSpringfield

shivers13
... for the "younger folk" here (are there any??)

There are a few of us at the moment. Sometimes more, occasionally less. People seem to be gung-ho about surf for a little while and then ditch it for greener pastures.

Yeah this has been a bummer to see. Youth is hugely lacking in this genre now. When I joined the forum I'm pretty sure I was the youngest member at the time (19 or so?), probably the youngest active member. Younger kids have popped up since then but none of them have really stuck around, and I haven't seen any really young bands pop up recently. Are the Deadbeats still really the youngest band? I'm 23 and I'm the oldest in the group. I'm surprised and kinda scared there aren't younger acts that have found their way to this site. I'm all for carrying that torch but it looks like it's fizzling.

To me it seems there is a lot of energy in the whole thing at the moment. There's a lot of variation, it seems. People are looking forwards, backwards, up, down and sideways. Some have got their eyes tight shut. But it all adds to the breadth and scope of what could be a pretty restrictive style of music. People have shown again and again that it's not restrictive at all.

Personally, I like the whole thing because there are plenty of people that are not young playing guitar, and are in bands that people love. The music that kids are exposed to is a very small and restrictive selection, mainly what's on the radio or in their parents record collection. It can take a while to find this stuff, don't you think? You gotta hear it to like it, and there isn't a lot of exposure to surf music (there never has, really since the 60's drew to a close). A lot of people we've played to didn't even realise they liked it and ask what kind of music it is!

I'd say it isn't the youth that's so important. It's people picking up on it in the first place. Discovering it or rediscovering it - it's all good and healthy. You don't pass a torch on to someone who doesn't know what to do with it.. Since I've got into it, I've started a band, travelled to Italy for a festival, travelled halfway across the country to see bands no-one's heard of, met some awesome and very cool people, and had great fun. Enthusiasm isn't just for the young, is it?

To quote the review of the Bambi Molesters latest cd in Shindig magazine: "This is ACE! We didn't realise people still made records like this..." And that's a music magazine. A _retro _music magazine as well. I'd say surf music is looking a lot healthier than psychobilly....!

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

da-ron
To me it seems there is a lot of energy in the whole thing at the moment. There's a lot of variation, it seems. People are looking forwards, backwards, up, down and sideways. Some have got their eyes tight shut. But it all adds to the breadth and scope of what could be a pretty restrictive style of music. People have shown again and again that it's not restrictive at all.

Whether or not surf is restrictive, there are fewer and fewer bands, period - regardless of the age of the members involved. And fewer bands means fewer good bands.

That's a pretty big problem, IMO.

That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.

shivers13
And the Who and The Stones. My cut off is when Brian Wilson left the band. But I have a soft spot for "Do it Again" and "Kokomo"!!

Wasn't "Do It Again" a re-record of an early BB album track? Or am I confusing that with something else?

Radio Free Bakersfield--60 Minutes of TWANG, CRUNCH, OOMPH.
http://radiofreebakersfield.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Radio-Free-Bakersfield/172410279636
http://www.sandiegojoe.com/rfb.htm

Ok. Here's my two cents.
The only thing that is gonna keep Surf Music alive is........................"Change"!

Be careful following the masses. Sometimes the "M" is silent...........................

This thread is great fun to read as well as very interesting.

I don't know if I have much to add (but watch me run my mouth for paragraphs anyway) because this is such a difficult subject...hard to find the words to convey the thoughts and feelings.

I can say that I have a serious nostalgia for the late 50s-early 60s era. And it's a time I never experienced, being born in 1968. Like The Baron and spskins were discussing, I was weaned on the tail end of that stuff...the models, Rat Fink stuff, Friday night double Creature Features running old horror and sci-fi flicks on (pre-cable) television. Fortunately I had two considerably older sisters, so I got turned on to a lot of cool stuff by their boyfriends.

The entire question of "What is surf and where can it go and still be called surf?" is so subjective. Everyone has their own criteria and definition and none of them is really "wrong" (simply because of the subjectivity.)

While the First Wave, to me, does pretty much span 1961-1965, I can only say that I "know" whether or not something is surf (to me) when I hear it and it strikes me as a surf tune.

I don't have a problem with current bands who go traditional with a capital 'T' but I also appreciate many who switch it up a little. Add other influences or gimmicks or some kind of fresh approach. But where does that end and what is "acceptable?" Hip hop beats and samples married to surfy guitar lines?

Some people might welcome that; it makes me want to puke.

I guess when I listen to what I personally consider a surf band, I want the music to lift me out of myself and out of time and transport me. That's what the best surf (new OR old) does for me. It's timeless. It can put me in a mindset far away from the modern world and the "life things" that can drag you down, or it can keep me in the present but be a cleansing balm to wipe away stress or it can make me meditative about the future.

Mostly, though, it's fun. I try not to overthink it. But this is a thought-provoking thread.

I wish I had more to add but I feel like I've already talked so long without saying much of anything.

I just hope more people will post. I'm really enjoying reading through this thread.

Klas
I think there has been quite a lot of "change" in the scene over the past years and when someone like Ivan says he's really worried for the future, one has to wonder if there has simply been too much change. Today, I can only think of a handful trad surf bands that are still active, releasing albums and writing their own material while there seem to be way more bands out there constantly pushing all sorts of boundaries.

One can equally wonder if there simply hasn't been enough change. Either argument is spurious, and unprovable. The fact is that for most people that even know about surf music think of it as a novelty and associate it with nostalgia. I personally really really hate that. You may as well have a dancing monkey, it's basically the same thing. People will look and say, wow, check out the monkey dance, isn't that fun! But once they walk away, the dancing monkey will have no further impact on their lives. Because of the inability of surf music to make a deeper emotional connection with many people, because of its increasing disposability, we are also increasingly failing to attract talented players into this genre - not like we did 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. It seems that the overall audience is shrinking, too, based on the declining CD sale numbers for almost all surf bands. The bottom line is that the overall creativity and quality of surf music is on the decline. I was optimistic two years ago because there were a handful of great releases, several by newer bands, that I had hoped would be a harbinger of things to come. The Barbwires CD, which I thought was quite genius, seemed to fail to ignite the genre much, which was disappointing - I'm not even sure if they're active at the moment; Los Twang! Marvels had more of an impact with their phenomenal "Jungle of Twang" CD, but now that they're back in Chile, their future is uncertain. I am good friends and love many of the '90s players, but we need new people, too, whether young, middle-aged or older. I'm very glad that Ferenc did the Frankie & the Pool Boys CD, cause it's brilliant. Same goes for last year's new Satan's Pilgrims album and the new Bambi Molesters album. And I'm very glad that John Blair is still kicking ass and released a new album with the Eliminators (which I will be picking up next week, and am really looking forward to it). It's great to have this continuity, and important for the genre. But it's beyond question that we need more new blood, too. The Dead Beats are truly impressive, and I have great hopes for them, but they have to actually release a CD. A great deal of potential there, fantastic musicianship and great songwriting. But how do young guys like that put enough money together for a CD release? The reason the Space Cossacks were able to do it at that age (or a bit older) was that there was a label willing to pick up the costs of recording. Where are those labels today? Non-existent. If the Cossacks had to record on our dime, we never would have released an album. This is a serious problem - and probably not just for surf music.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that surf will actually completely go away for a long time. I think we've carved out a niche (and a fairly faithful niche audience that will support us) that will allow the genre to survive for a long time. But my personal judgment is that things at the moment are moving in the wrong direction, that the genre is contracting, in terms of creativity, number of bands, and the audience. That pains me. We in the Madeira are doing our best to fight that, and we do quite well. Most shows we play are well-attended, and I think we've built a good reputation as a good live act. So, none of my comments are based on what's happening with my own band, but rather as what I perceive to be happening around the country and around the world. I am not sure I'm right, and in fact, I hope I'm wrong. There are enough highly motivated individuals that are doing all they can to make surf music better known, and I truly hope they're successful - in particular, Tom Duncan with the upcoming doc, Steven Seagren and the group making the other surf music doc, the continuing relevance of the Surfer Joe fest, Jeff and the SG101 convention, things like FesTiki in Ohio, and tons of other events. God bless all of them, and let's hope their efforts pay off. But we as bands I think also have to step up our game. If we don't make captivating music that can connect with listeners, all the above will be for naught. I want surf musicians to be more ambitious, to set bigger goals for themselves, to really push themselves. I think that's our only hope.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

da-ron
To me it seems there is a lot of energy in the whole thing at the moment. There's a lot of variation, it seems. People are looking forwards, backwards, up, down and sideways. Some have got their eyes tight shut. But it all adds to the breadth and scope of what could be a pretty restrictive style of music. People have shown again and again that it's not restrictive at all.

da-ron, I appreciate your comments and your enthusiasm. I'm guessing that you've gotten into this scene in the past five years or less? If so, I can understand your perspective. But for some of us that have been around for much longer than that, it's not quite as bright, simply because we saw it be much brighter in the past. But I agree with most of your comments above.

I'd say it isn't the youth that's so important. It's people picking up on it in the first place. Enthusiasm isn't just for the young, is it?

Very true! But it does seem to be present with the young moreso than with the slightly older....

To quote the review of the Bambi Molesters latest cd in Shindig magazine: "This is ACE! We didn't realise people still made records like this..." And that's a music magazine. A _retro _music magazine as well.

Right, and therein lies the problem - after 20 years of the current revival, this is STILL the case! Despite the best efforts by many of us. And God bless the Bambi Molesters for this very reason - no matter what you may think of them, they've been able to play with the big boys more than pretty much any other surf band out there. And they continue to do that. I personally believe it is primarily because they make damn good music, extremely creative and highly personal - while retaining their surf music foundations, maybe even more than they themselves realize - or even wish to! I personally view them as a model, as a band that more of us should aspire to be like (and I don't mean to just copy their sound or style of whatever, but to set our sights on bigger goals and be relevant to this time period, which I think they are more than pretty much all other surf bands). Here is a band that sold over 10,000 copies of "Sonic Bullets" - how many other surf bands can point to sales anywhere near these levels? I think most surf bands are pretty ecstatic if their albums sell 2000-3000 copies.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

IvanP
I want surf musicians to be more ambitious, to set bigger goals for themselves, to really push themselves. I think that's our only hope.

Ivan, you found the words to say the smartest thing here. This should have to be the new title of this thread.

There is no death in surf music at all. There is no death in Trad surf music at all. There are not less bands at all, way more than 10 years ago like I said previously. Of course if you consider one country that could be true... but surf music has gone all over. ALL over. USA are not the same USA as in the 60s, my friends, like it or not. UK drives the market, followed by other countries that probably have much more power and variety in live music, like Germany. And more money to spend in artists... by the way.

There has never been a business eye at the back of surf music, unless for a very short period when big labels like Capitol thought that was a good pop business. So, not being any business mind there are no tv shows, no large audience showcases, no one saying to the world "hey, surf music has never disappeared, but it is actually stronger than before!"

WHO the hell can imagine that there is a surf music community if there is nothing on tv or there are not big events?
This is the KEY of the festivals, like Surfer Joe's. Everyone, I mean everyone, all the sponsors, all the surfers, all the entities involved that pay their attention for 5 minutes to what we are doing are impressed. They want to sponsor, but not the small community event, they want to have the big audience vision. No one of these people say that surf music is dead.
Is it like Hip-Hop: no. Is it cool, new and refreshing for most of public: YES.

So Ivan is right. Think positive and we'll get where we want.

Good bands or bad bands. This is interesting because nobody can say that. It is a subjective point of view. Some bands considered absolutely superb, I don't like at all and they are not so enjoyable to me. Other smaller ones are absolutely fun!
But, you know, bands come and go... try to think higher than that when you think of the future of a genre like surf music, see what there is after today, think of next year and what can be done to gain more popularity.
When there is popularity a lot of good surf bands will come out. Don't worry.

I see a lot of people sitting in their chairs discussing about how big or small a genre is, but they are looking into their living room only!
To see how big or small it is you need to go around, ask people, ask for bookings, get your NO's and get your YES's and see how many you got on each hand and see WHY. And after you have checked this city, check the next one and then check the next country and then see what the other bands say and what are their experiences.

Sometime it is easy to go around, ask the money to play and not realizing that you have been closed into your room for 30 years, with no business supporting your back and, in the end, with very little experience. LIVE experience. Experience on the field.

Only few bands go around seriously today. Are they better? it is not my point to say who's better and who is not. The fact is that their marketing is better! And, believe it or not, this is the key for everything, including keeping alive or send to sure death a music genre like surf.
Los Straitjackets, my friend Danny Amis. They are not exactly a "surf band", but Danny is definitely a surf guitarist. I would say that - apart for their ability in playing - they have a fantastic marketing. They are volcanos of good ideas. THIS is what is needed.

So to answer the question from my point of view. Is surf music dying? It depends if you want it to die or not. Trad or not trad? Doesn't really matter. In any case people identify SURF MUSIC, with beautiful Fender guitar sounds, reverb, cool atmosphere, the 60s and so on... they might like it or not, but this is how normal people see it.

Hope I did not offend anyone. As usual, I try to speak pretty direct and clear.

Lorenzo

Lorenzo "Surfer Joe" Valdambrini
(www.surfmusic.net)

IvanP
One can equally wonder if there simply hasn't been enough change. Either argument is spurious, and unprovable. The fact is that for most people that even know about surf music think of it as a novelty and associate it with nostalgia. I personally really really hate that. You may as well have a dancing monkey, it's basically the same thing. People will look and say, wow, check out the monkey dance, isn't that fun! But once they walk away, the dancing monkey will have no further impact on their lives. Because of the inability of surf music to make a deeper emotional connection with many people, because of its increasing disposability, we are also increasingly failing to attract talented players into this genre - not like we did 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. It seems that the overall audience is shrinking, too, based on the declining CD sale numbers for almost all surf bands. The bottom line is that the overall creativity and quality of surf music is on the decline.

This is more or less my thought on the matter. The talented player part I disagree with, but probably more so in a semantic type of way. We don't need talented(virtuosic) players, we need passionate people who write original and dynamic(emotional) music.

Also, regarding the argument that there are more bands than ever at the moment... Have you heard most of the bands? I've done the myspace rounds there are more mediocre bands than ever out there sapping the life force out of surf music. The more and more I dislike hearing surf music doesn't mean I become any less disinterested with any of the albums I fell in love with while I was discovering the genre. It just makes me thing we need a paradigm shift or an epiphany.