synchro
If you could find the right band Mozart's 40th would be a great Surf song done in Em.

Forget about the band, what about the right person to arrange it. The 40th is long, changes keys, and is a complicated piece of music if you want to do it right. You could just steal the main melody, but that really defeats the purpose of covering classic music. It is just wrong to rip the song apart.

JakeDobner

synchro
If you could find the right band Mozart's 40th would be a great Surf song done in Em.

Forget about the band, what about the right person to arrange it. The 40th is long, changes keys, and is a complicated piece of music if you want to do it right. You could just steal the main melody, but that really defeats the purpose of covering classic music. It is just wrong to rip the song apart.

And which movement? The world isn't ready for a 30 minute surf song. Someone on here did a great version of Ludwig Van's 5th (first movement). I have Troika by Prokofiev from the Lieutenant Kiji Suite on Myspace. I didn't have to change anything. The Tomorrow Men do Claire de Lune, and then there is Pollo del Mar who must have one classical piece on every CD.
I don't think anyone has attempted a true classical guitar piece, it just won't surf.

CaptainSpringfield

JakeDobner
It is just wrong to rip the song apart.

... you might want to avoid the version of "Fur Elise" that's on the Terauchi Takeshi album linked above.

I have a copy of that album, I've only listened to it a couple times. Not a huge fan. Although you inadvertantly brought up a point I didn't think of. That is the very nearly the full Fur Elise. It is just a short piece for solo piano. Same goes with many etudes and caprices that would work for a modern rock band setup.

JakeDobner
I have a copy of that album, I've only listened to it a couple times. Not a huge fan.

Yeah, there're only a couple of songs on it that are really worth more than one spin. Mostly just "Fur Elise," interestingly enough.

"Inadvertently" ... pfft.

That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.

JakeDobner

Stormtiger
Troika by Prokofiev from the Lieutenant Kiji Suite on Myspace. I didn't have to change anything.

Sounds good! I really enjoy Prokofiev, I just got his First Violin Concerto.

Thanks Jake. If you like Prokofiev give Symphony # 5 a listen.
Here is music “glorifying the human spirit,” Prokofiev said of Symphony #5, which he considered to be one of his best compositions.
Especially the 2nd movement (I think) here is a short clip: the second selection.http://www.amazon.com/gp/recsradio/radio/B00004SA89/ref=pd_krex_listen_dp_img?ie=UTF8&refTagSuffix=dp_img

morphball
Los Twang! Marvels - Toccata und Fuge

This is something that has been debated at great lengths in a thread and in the chat room. In my opinion there just aren't enough pieces to pull this song off. It is played well, but it is a piece that was written for organ and just doesn't work 100% with the setup the Los Twang Marvels have.

At 0:27 on this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FXoyr_FyFw , this is one of the reasons this piece is so brilliant. And that is really hard to capture with a band, plus there are quite a few rests in this song that also aren't recreated very well. Perhaps it is just me, but I just don't see the point in covering something where you have to make a choice of keeping 1/8th to 1/4 of a brilliant song. What do you possible throw away when all of it was written by a master composer. And most of all I think modern arrangements miss out on the feeling of the piece and just keep the melody. See 0:27 on this video again and any point of the video where there are four counterpoint pieces going.

I don't think people understand the thread or are not reading the actual words in my comment. When I said I thought a surf guitarist would enjoy playing concert or classical guitar I was stating the similarities between playing each genre's pieces- short and instrumental. Catchy hooks and melodies...on the guitar for the guitar written by guitarists. Everyone else seems to be talking about symphony music which has no guitar and nothing to do with practicing left and right fingering technique or which "classical" pieces to bend into a surf tune. I admire all the efforts mentioned above and that they are thought of well by many here, but reading the replies in reverse order one would never guess the topic of this thread until the last page.
I know the term "classical" is the fault. It is a misnomer meaning all symphonic music and a name stuck to the guitar as it achieved its golden era in the true Classical period-mid to late 1700s to early 1800s. Most people also mean classical as in historic or traditional guitar. So they blend the two which is ironic as it still is very rare to see a guitar in a symphony.
I don't mean to be one of those heavies reminding people that we turned way off topic, but we were talking about some pieces of spruce or cedar and rosewood 650mm in length and who plays it and how seriously.
Still think the world of you guys anyway.

www.jetpackband.com
https://www.facebook.com/JetpackTheBand

Jetpack
I don't think people understand the thread or are not reading the actual words in my comment.
I don't mean to be one of those heavies reminding people that we turned way off topic, but we were talking about some pieces of spruce or cedar and rosewood 650mm in length and who plays it and how seriously.
Still think the world of you guys anyway.

I think we understand, it is the norm for topics to veer from the original post. Your post implied a similarity between surf and guitar music like that of Sor, Tarrega and the others who wrote music for the guitar as opposed to transcribing piano music. I don't see a similarity though, classical guitar techniques do not translate to surf music where you are using a pick and heavy steel strings. I don't think a study of classical guitar will improve your surf music skills, but it will take you well beyond and would be worthwhile for anyone who loves guitar music.

I don't know that I would want any professional or teacher or professor to see "classical guitar is classical music ...music composed for it is classical music regardless of the era," and know it was on a surf music site written by a surf musician which I am one of. Be serious now: would anyone here want to stand in front of Parkening or Julian Bream and say, "This is what I think too."
It's bad enough people generally think of us surf players as three chorders in garages. Just take a moment to think of all the times they have heard students play solo "classical" pieces that there can be no argument about- simply are not. Like Steve Howe's noodling around, that piece Alex Lifeson did solo on Exit... Stage Left, etc all on "classical" guitar and written for it. I remember a kid in high school playing that "Is There Anybody Out There" for a recital and the choral instructor-not even the guitar teacher- argued with the other teachers right up to the moments before he went on that he should not be allowed in the program. Looking back, it must embarrass the kid now, thinking he was playing classical music while he just came off looking like a kid that couldn't put childish things aside and be serious for even his ONE piece for the recital. I get the gist of what you wrote as I myself said the blanket term portion earlier. But there is just a lot of pop, contemporary, etc that is on a classical and is not classical. (Classical Gas being a great ironic example.)
I mean we have all had discussions on here whether the Ventures or Bel Airs and particular tunes, etc count as surf. Can you imagine a professional classical musician saying "You guys actually debate THAT but then make a lump-it-together statement like music composed for classical guitar is classical music regardless?!" He'd tell us to stick to our three chords

www.jetpackband.com
https://www.facebook.com/JetpackTheBand

Last edited: Oct 12, 2009 21:22:13

I think we may be falling into a discussion of semantics. Any time we classify music there is plenty of room for disagreement on where to draw the lines.

During the summer of 1969 I spent my summer break learning Classical Gas as close to verbatim as possible when played as a solo guitar piece. Even at the tender age of 14 it was obvious that the chord voicings were considerably different than anything I had experienced before. Classical technique may find you fingering a triad at the 10th fret while playing open strings for bass notes. Classical guitar frequently boils down to squeezing as much as possible from the instrument in spite of its limitations. In a way it becomes a challenge in Industrial Engineering, working to find a process that optimizes resources and leads to greater efficiency.

In the late '70s I listened to Joe Pass and did my best to copy his every move. It was a real challenge to keep a bass line going under complex changes but Joe Pass proved it was at least possible. During the mid '80s I spent a lot of time playing standards as solo pieces using classical guitar techniques. The number of pieces I played that were recognized as classical music were very limited but the techniques of classical allowed me to tackle some interesting pieces and make them sound whole and complete on solo guitar. In the '90s I studied Chet Atkins and tried to understand just how he was able to wring so very much out of the guitar. Since 2,000 I've studied Blues and Rock but also spent some time studying the solo playing of Tommy Emmanuel. Classical technique has informed my playing for many years but it was more helpful in some types of music than others. Of all those musical explorations the one that was hardest for me was Blues and Rock because it required a completely different approach (for the most part) than the LH techniques used in classical guitar.

I've long since given up on drawing lines. Was Joe Pass a Classical guitarist? I could argue either direction. IMHO Johnny Smith was the quintessential claasical guitarist as far as LH technique is concerned but his RH technique is a very pure form of alternate picking. His RH technique can sound astoundingly close to fingerstyle even though it uses only a pick. If I were to debate whether or not Smith is a classical guitarist I'd have a harder time arguing against that conclusion. BTW, one of his triumphs at NBC was mastering a Classical piece in a very short time for a live on-air concert. How about Chet or Tommy Emmanuel? Chet did some classical playing during his concerts but even his more Country oriented material used at least some Classical technique. Tommy, IMHO, is in a class by himself. He's the only player I've ever seen that impressed me the same way that Chet did in concert.

So maybe we should look at it from another direction. How would any of these players come across playing Surf? I know that Joe Pass had a great sense of humor about himself and I doubt that he'd look down his nose at Surf music. I can only imagine what would happen but my guess is that he'd have played the hell out of Surf. He certainly had the chops. Johnny Smith wrote Walk, don't Run", but it was more of a Classical piece than anything else crossing over into Jazz in some ways. I would have a hard time imagining Johnny Smith playing through a wall of reverb but I promise you that he'd stop the show if he were to play Surf. He could play three octave arppegios faster than most of us could listen to them. His Jazz guitar sound, BTW, was much brighter than most other Jazzers of his era. Maybe he was a closet Surf player. Chet? Chet could play anything and do it justice. I have no doubt that he could have done Surf authentically and beautifully without breaking a sweat. Tommy Emmanuel plays some Surf tunes in his solo concerts and he's a reverb lover. Once again, there's no question in my mind that he'd be a great Surf player.

I guess my point is this; no one genre of music is "better" than another. If someone can play what they want and express themselves musically without being frustrated by limitations then they are successful in their playing. However, certain types of training, such as Classical guitar, are very useful in preparing someone to play a lot of different types of music. Scales, chords, arppegios, exercises and technique studies are preparatory activities much like a chef preparing ingredients to be used in a complex recipe. The art comes in blending the ingredients together into a pleasing, well presented meal. The greater the skill of the chef in preparing the ingredients that more likely he is to succeed in making a fine meal. Likewise, a guitarist that builds the fundmental skills will probably find it easier to express himself musically but, and it's a big but, if that player lacks the artistic talent to create good music the results will be mechanical and not musical.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.