Reef-Ranger
Joined: Mar 14, 2009
Posts: 60
Oceania
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 02:21 PM
Greetings Everyone!
Does anybody here have personal experience comparing the use of a Fender '63 reissue outboard reverb tank directly into an amp vs. the tank being used through an amp's FX loop?
I have access to '63 reissue outboard tank and I'm strongly considering the purchase of a small (low-powered) amp (head only) for use primarily in a studio application, but the amp head does not come with onboard reverb, nor does it have an FX loop. However, I can special order an FX loop on the amp if needed.
So, I'm trying to determine whether I really need an FX loop? In other words, I'm curious about how this reverb tank will sound directly into an amp (with no FX loop) as compared to being used in the amp's FX loop (if I had one).
Anybody? Is there a huge tonal difference between the two types of configurations? Does one suck more tone or volume than the other?
Thanks All!
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2687
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 02:28 PM
Does anyone here have an FX Loop? I seriously doubt it, especially if using a vintage Fender amp. Hope that helps.
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Sandy
Joined: May 02, 2009
Posts: 58
Colorado
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 02:31 PM
fx loops verboten!
— www.myspace.com/sandyandthesurfsonics
www.surfsonics.com
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Reef-Ranger
Joined: Mar 14, 2009
Posts: 60
Oceania
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 02:43 PM
Sandy
fx loops verboten!
Cool! And if so, that's great news! But is there a specific reason (or set of reasons) why you say this?
The amp builder I'm looking at is a well-respected (polished) expert and he doesn't much like FX loops either. In his view, an FX loop unnecessarily lengthens the signal path, which he feels degrades the overall tone. His combo amps have a beautiful sounding 3-spring reverb, but the same reverb isn't available in his head-only model.
Thus, the critical question is . . . will my 3-spring '63 reissue "outboard" tank sound as nice plugged directly into a head as his combo amp sounds with the same exact "onboard" reverb pan?
Anyone?
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 02:44 PM
I've never played anything through an FX loop, so I can't really chime in. But you should have no problem running the Reverb unit through the signal chain of the guitar.
If you like surf music you are essentially recreating the way its been done for ages, assuming you bought the reverb unit to sound like traditional surf rock then the same reasoning applies to using the reverb unit in the signal chain.
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billmag
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
Posts: 8
Georgetown, TX via So. Cal (OC)
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 02:47 PM
It appears that Fender doesn't recommend using the effects loop according to the owner's manual (and its reasons):
Using your 63 Fender Reverb
"The 63 Fender Reverb is designed to go between a low level instrument (such as a guitar) and a high input impedance amplifier (such as any Fender tube amplifier or the high sensitivity input on any Fender solid-state amplifier). It should be used only with the clean channel of the amplifier as distorted reverb sounds very unnatural. If you want to use the 63 Fender Reverb with high gain or distortion, you may use either a distortion pedal inserted before the Reverb Unit or connect the Reverb Unit in the effects loop of the amplifier and use the high gain/distortion channel of the amplifier. However, since most of the sonic benefits of the 63 Fender Reverb result from the fact that the reverb signal is generated before the tone controls and preamp gain circuitry of the amplifier, we do not recommend using it in the effects loop."
Hope this helps. 
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zak
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 02:49 PM
This post has been removed by the author.
Last edited: Sep 27, 2009 17:30:19
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Reef-Ranger
Joined: Mar 14, 2009
Posts: 60
Oceania
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 03:16 PM
billmag
It appears that Fender doesn't recommend using the effects loop according to the owner's manual (and its reasons):
Using your 63 Fender Reverb
"However, since most of the sonic benefits of the 63 Fender Reverb result from the fact that the reverb signal is generated before the tone controls and preamp gain circuitry of the amplifier, we do not recommend using it in the effects loop."
Hope this helps.
Bingo! Thanks Billmag! Exactly what I was searching for!
Consider this thread closed!
Thanx All!
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11069
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 04:08 PM
Before you close it: Consider getting a 2 spring pan, 3 springs are too long a decay for most surf guitarists.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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zak
Joined: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 2728
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 04:13 PM
This post has been removed by the author.
Last edited: Sep 27, 2009 17:30:32
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Reef-Ranger
Joined: Mar 14, 2009
Posts: 60
Oceania
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 05:03 PM
DannySnyder
Before you close it: Consider getting a 2 spring pan, 3 springs are too long a decay for most surf guitarists.
Thanks! I appreciate the suggestion but I prefer the lush sound of a 3-spring (long decay) variety to the splashy, surfy, tinny, 2-spring unit, the latter of which is the far easier tone to achieve IMHO.
The fact is, I've got vintage (floor- and side-mount) 2-spring units here manufactured by Gibbs (i.e., Hammond organs) as well as every 2- and 3-spring unit that Accutronics has ever made (floor- and side-mount). Yes, a 2-spring has its place, but its a limited place, far more limited than the 3-spring.
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BigKen
Joined: May 08, 2008
Posts: 253
Motor City Surfer
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 08:54 PM
Reef-Ranger
Greetings Everyone!
Does anybody here have personal experience comparing the use of a Fender '63 reissue outboard reverb tank directly into an amp vs. the tank being used through an amp's FX loop?
So, I'm trying to determine whether I really need an FX loop? In other words, I'm curious about how this reverb tank will sound directly into an amp (with no FX loop) as compared to being used in the amp's FX loop (if I had one).
Ranger,
In the user guide for the Fender Tank, they strongly recommend that you DO NOT run the tank thru an FX loop. Run it directly into the clean channel of the amp.
It's gonna perform much better that way too.... I think.
— Fin Doctors
Crashmatics
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Reef-Ranger
Joined: Mar 14, 2009
Posts: 60
Oceania
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 09:11 PM
Big Ken!
Many thanx, amigo!
Yup, thanks to you and others here, that's exactly what I've learned, and that's exactly the way I intend to use it from here on out. Best of all, it helped answer the central question for me, which was . . . "do I need to have an FX loop on a custom built amp" in order to make best use of this '63 reissue tank?
Answer? No, I don't. So, I'm good to go!
Thanx again all!
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Lime
Joined: May 12, 2009
Posts: 68
Chicago
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Posted on Sep 17 2009 09:55 PM
Today I tried rearranging my signal path a bit as an experimentation.
I mixed everything around either before the main input, or in the FX loop of my amp.
I found that my favorite setup was guitar (Am-Strat), G-Spring, Dano Reel Echo, amp. In the end, I didn't prefer using the FX loop at all.
This might not apply to anyone's situation, but I hope I was able to help in some way.
Edited for error in signal path list.
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