SurfRocker
Joined: Oct 28, 2006
Posts: 8
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Posted on Oct 28 2006 03:42 PM
Hello -
This is my first time on here and I am in search of a solution to an issue I've been having for quite some time on amps and tone.
Background: I've been playing guitar for 15 yrs and currently play in a band called Charlie Don't Surf www.myspace.com/charliedontsurfutah
Gear: I play an ESP X-tone through a Mesa Boogie 50W Rectoverb with Mesa 4x12 cabinet.
I also run a pedal train with:
Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive
Voodoo Lab Tremelo
Rocktron Digital Delay
Boss Chorus
Issue: The Mesa amp works great for the heavy rock stuff but less than great for the surf rock we play. We typically start our set off with several surf tunes, most originals with some covers by Link Ray, Dick Dale, Ventures, etc... For the surf rock, I usually toil with the clean and pushed functions on the clean channel and use a combination of the above pedals to get a "simulated" surf sound. I know it's best to usually go with the amp that produces the sound rather than using effects, but I also want the versatility to switch between surf and punk rock (dirty channel) at moments notice.
Question: Is there a surf (reverb/spring coil) tone amp head out there that I can run my guitar in series through my existing 50W head and into the 4x12 cabinet? I know about the Fender Twin Reverb/Deluxe and models of the like that are combos. I'm more interested in getting another amp head that has similar sound and run both amps through the cabinet, not necessarily at the same time. The cabinet has an option of 8 ohms or 2 4ohm inputs. Since I have the speakers, I really don't want to have two separate amp/speakers that I have to unplug my guitar from one to the other.
I was hoping someone out there might have run into this before or at least heard about a similar situation. Just wondering how to get the best of both worlds through one cable...
Thanks and I hope to hear from you!
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norcalhodad
Joined: May 25, 2006
Posts: 537
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Posted on Oct 28 2006 11:50 PM
I'm going to assume your current guitar has humbuckers...If so, single coils might help you get the sound you're looking for. Or maybe add an outboard reverb unit.
—  > 
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eddiewagner
Joined: Aug 12, 2006
Posts: 77
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Posted on Oct 29 2006 10:49 AM
hmmm. maybe a used fender or musicman top and a a/b-box? i don´r know....
— www.myspace.com/captaintwangandhisrhythmcat
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RobbieReverb
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2383
San Jose, Ca.
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Posted on Oct 29 2006 03:00 PM
Radial Engineering makes a "Headbone VT" Head Switcher,
allowing you to switch between 2 heads, while using one
cabinet. This floor pedal uses a bunch of photocells and
high cycle relays for switching. A digital programmable
interrupt controller receives commands from the onboard
footswitch or a remote switching system to ensure proper
loads. It runs about $230.00. With one of these and a Fender,
Reverend, or Musicman Head, and you'd be in business.
Or something as simple as as switching a Fender reverb tank
into your clean channel on your Boogie might be all it takes.
Bob
— Bob
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SurfRocker
Joined: Oct 28, 2006
Posts: 8
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Posted on Oct 29 2006 10:38 PM
Thanks for your replies and good advice. I went the the local guitar shop in SLC today and toyed with the Fender Twin Reverb. Definately has the sound I'm looking for. Since I haven't seen or heard of any heads that have this vibrato/tremelo mix with ample reverb, I'm thinking of going with the combo amp and an a/b/y box. I hear they're something to not skimp on b/c the cheaper ones cut out tone and quality. I think I may call the Mesa and Fender tech support and see what they think. Any other ideas or information would be great. Thanks dudes!
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JoshHeartless
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
Posts: 1010
Bay City, Michigan
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Posted on Oct 30 2006 04:32 PM
hey i can definetely help, i play in a surf/punk band.
i play through a sound city concord, which sounds a lot like a fender twin reverb, except without as much reverb.
on my amp, there are 2 channels, and 2 inputs per channel. the 2nd channel has the reverb, and the 2nd input on each channel has more of a crunch. i believe most fenders are set up this way also. anyway, i put my guitar into the 2nd input on the 1st channel, and then take a small cord, and put it from the 1st input of the 1st channel, to the 2nd input of the 2nd channel, this makes it so you can use both channels at once. whichever channel has the volume at a higher level will be dominant, so in my case, i always make sure the channel with the reverb is at a higher volume, so you can at least hear the reverb. you can also modify the tone more with this technique, but that's all personal preference.
i currently play out of an old marshall cab that i used to have, but im soon going to get a custom cab with a 15' weber cali and a 12' jensen, but the marshall still sounds nice. use celestion speakers for more of a crunch, and thats what kind of speakers marshall uses.
for guitars, i have an epiphone wildkat and a peavey raptor, its a strat copy, it was cheap, and it was my first guitar. i fixed it up to make it better though. im actually going to a real fender strat soon, though.
go to www.myspace.com/thehearteaters to hear what it sounds like. for that recording i still had my cheap les paul jr that i put a jazzmaster trem on, my new guitars sound better though, but not much has changed. the only thing i can honestly say i dont like about my sound is it doesnt have enough reverb.
charlie dont surf? thats a clash song. too bad it wasnt surfy sounding at all. they were a fuckin' great band.
— The Tremblors on Facebook!
The Tremblors on MySpace!
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RobbieReverb
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2383
San Jose, Ca.
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Posted on Oct 30 2006 08:22 PM
charlie dont surf? thats a clash song. too bad it wasnt surfy sounding at all. they were a fuckin' great band.
You ought to listen to Pollo Del Mar's surfed up version of
"Charlie Don't Surf". It is very cool! 
Bob
— Bob
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25668
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Oct 30 2006 08:41 PM
and there is also the surf band compilation/tribute cd to the Clash called "Charlie Does Surf"
definelty worth checking out.
http://www.charliedoessurf.com/
enjoy
Jeff(bigtikidude)
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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SurfRocker
Joined: Oct 28, 2006
Posts: 8
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Posted on Oct 30 2006 10:01 PM
Hearteater
go to www.myspace.com/thehearteaters to hear what it sounds like. for that recording i still had my cheap les paul jr that i put a jazzmaster trem on, my new guitars sound better though, but not much has changed. the only thing i can honestly say i dont like about my sound is it doesnt have enough reverb.
charlie dont surf? thats a clash song. too bad it wasnt surfy sounding at all. they were a fuckin' great band.
Checked out your band... your set up sounds like it works well for the surf punk style. Reminds me of Dead Kennedys with surf tone... DK are an influence of ours. We actually just played a show on Friday with Night of the Living Red Necks, a DK cover band. Anyway, I requested you as a "friend". 
We actually got the name from Apocolypse Now. But then remembered the Clash had a song titled Charlie Don't Surf but had nothing to do with surf music... see below for my next post...
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SurfRocker
Joined: Oct 28, 2006
Posts: 8
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Posted on Oct 30 2006 10:11 PM
RobbieReverb
charlie dont surf? thats a clash song. too bad it wasnt surfy sounding at all. they were a fuckin' great band.
You ought to listen to Pollo Del Mar's surfed up version of
"Charlie Don't Surf". It is very cool!
Bob
Checked out these guys myspace. Cool shit!
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SurfRocker
Joined: Oct 28, 2006
Posts: 8
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Posted on Oct 30 2006 10:14 PM
bigtikidude
and there is also the surf band compilation/tribute cd to the Clash called "Charlie Does Surf"
definelty worth checking out.
http://www.charliedoessurf.com/
enjoy
Jeff(bigtikidude)
That's interesting. Interesting enough that I ordered the cd. Good collectors item and good way to get exposed to more surf stuff...
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SurfRocker
Joined: Oct 28, 2006
Posts: 8
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Posted on Oct 30 2006 10:25 PM
Let's face it, if we all spend time on these forum type things, we obviously care about the music we play and the gear we play it through.
So, I went to another local dealer today and messed around with the Fender 100W Twin. I think this one's the ticket and I now need to find a good a/b/y box. I talked to Mesa and Fender tech support today too. With the Celestion speakers in my Mesa cab, it sounds like I won't get the vintage tone I'm looking for, maybe close, but it's time I'm picky and I want to do it right after years of dabbling here and there on effects pedals and amps. I have a good job and music is on the top five priorities so why not invest in it a bit more? Aside from having to lug more equipment around, I think it's worth to have two amps - one for each spectrum of music we play. I love the Mesa for the gain. I love the Fender for reverb/trem/vib. Both have the name and I have an eye for each! The Fender Twin has the gain function which I think would be useful in matching two pushed clean tones at once. I'm interested to see how running both amps at the same time will sound. We're a three piece and it should hopefully add more fullness, yet, quality sound to the band where it's needed... Thanks for your comments and I will let ya'll know how it goes.
Any tips on a good a/b/y box? I'm willing to spend around $200 for one as I don't want to compromise tone quality and would go for a true bypass.
Thanks ya'll!!!
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11067
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Oct 30 2006 11:54 PM
SurfRocker
Any tips on a good a/b/y box? I'm willing to spend around $200 for one as I don't want to compromise tone quality and would go for a true bypass.
Thanks ya'll!!!
Check my article on the home page for the link to Anthony Gelona, if he doesn't have exactly what you want, he'll make it. For well under $200, guaranteed. Tell him I sent you.
BTW, I'm not convinced a new twin is the way to go for you. Spend some time researching amps for surf music, there's loads of archived topics related to this in here and other surf forums.
Good luck.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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SurfBandBill
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 1487
San Francisco
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Posted on Oct 31 2006 01:05 AM
If you're just looking for a tube head with decent reverb, Fender made a "Dual Showman Reverb" in the silverface era that had a pretty good tone. I don't see them around much, but I'm sure a little searching and maybe a little waiting would turn one up.
~B~
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WR
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
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Posted on Oct 31 2006 03:34 AM
I think you should check out the new fender super sonic. it's might well have all you need in one package. it's expensive, but so is two amps. it's aimed at people who want both vintage fender tone and mesa-like gain. that would be you right? it's getting raving reviwes, so worth checking out. it better build-quality then the ri's too.
WR
— Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."
https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11067
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Oct 31 2006 07:41 AM
SurfBandBill
If you're just looking for a tube head with decent reverb, Fender made a "Dual Showman Reverb" in the silverface era that had a pretty good tone. I don't see them around much, but I'm sure a little searching and maybe a little waiting would turn one up.
~B~
If money's not an object, I suggest you consider what Bill says. Determine which channel of the amp sounds better. Then find an expert amp tech and take the other channel and have him hot rod it to your own preference. I did that on my pro reverb and it's the perfect punk rock machine, no distortion pedals needed. Better than an A/B switch, I modded a stereo volume pedal into an A/B blend, very simple to do - see Craig Anderton's books on guitar effects. 2 cables are used to output the signal, one in each channel of the amp. Pedal down - clean channel, pedal up - dirty channel , anywhere in between and you blend the 2 channels to get just the amount of edge you want.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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SurfRocker
Joined: Oct 28, 2006
Posts: 8
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Posted on Oct 31 2006 12:54 PM
DannySnyder
BTW, I'm not convinced a new twin is the way to go for you. Spend some time researching amps for surf music, there's loads of archived topics related to this in here and other surf forums.
Good luck.
Thanks, I'll check out the article. What's convincing you that a new twin is not the way to go? I know that the serious surf musicians have an affinity for the older black face and silver face erra amps - rebuilt or whatever. What other amp would you suggest that has a beauty reverb clean as well as a gain?
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bots
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 290
Shwa City
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Posted on Oct 31 2006 06:07 PM
SurfBandBill
If you're just looking for a tube head with decent reverb, Fender made a "Dual Showman Reverb" in the silverface era that had a pretty good tone. I don't see them around much, but I'm sure a little searching and maybe a little waiting would turn one up.
~B~
I had a dual showman reverb two years ago. For a crossover genre it would be perfect. If your looking for gain and vib and verb, i suggest a sansamp GT2 in combination with the dual showman. Those bad boys are loud and clean and the GT2 fills in the gain in three models. Mesa Marshall and Fender. Similar to the New Supersonics I guess.
I find now days even when playing non surf stuff i still rely on tank + 85watts + 2 15's.
— www.myspace.com/vondrats
www.myspace.com/therobotssurfband
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11067
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Oct 31 2006 09:57 PM
SurfRocker
DannySnyder
BTW, I'm not convinced a new twin is the way to go for you. Spend some time researching amps for surf music, there's loads of archived topics related to this in here and other surf forums.
Good luck.
Thanks, I'll check out the article. What's convincing you that a new twin is not the way to go? I know that the serious surf musicians have an affinity for the older black face and silver face erra amps - rebuilt or whatever. What other amp would you suggest that has a beauty reverb clean as well as a gain?
To my ears, the new twins sound somewhat brittle and transparent, too clinical. Ever play a guitar through a stereo? It doesn't work, you need the amp to color the tone, and more than a little. Coupled with it being a electronic circuit board I don't recommend them for musicians who may be looking for something durable, repairable and easily customized.
What amp to get depends on the venue's you'll be playing. The biggest consideration for a surf guitarist is clean headroom. If you're amp is miked most of the time, than you'll be fine with a 50 watter like a bassman or 40 watter like bandmaster or pro reverb. If it's just your amp, you'll need the power of a Showman, plus, they're just so damn cool. (biased opinion)
If I were in the market for a quality amp today, I'd wait to see how Dario Gomez's Showman class amp comes out. Or else go the usual path of getting a vintage and have an expert do the mods. But look around, there may be some new amps we don't even know about. If you find some, by all means share them with this forum and solicit opinions.
I'm also partial to the sound of a 15" speaker. See if you can compare one to a 12" and hear the difference. You're going to be spending a huge chunk of change, so don't rush into this, enjoy the process of finding what works best for you.
As for reverb - for punk rock you need very little, any onboard will provide what you need. For the surf sound, you gotta have a 3 tube circuit like the outboard, no 2 ways about it. I believe the Gomez amp I mentioned above has the 3 tube Fender outboard circuit built into it.
My $.02
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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RobbieReverb
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2383
San Jose, Ca.
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Posted on Oct 31 2006 10:48 PM
: Danny Snider
The biggest consideration for a surf guitarist is clean headroom.
I'm also partial to the sound of a 15" speaker. See if you can compare one to a 12" and hear the difference.
You might see if you can find a used Fender "75". It's got 75 watts,
a nice sounding clean channel, and a 15" speaker. This was Fender's
first channel switching amp, unleashed in 1979. I'm not crazy about
distortion channel, but the clean channel is great. The reverb sounds
very good (but not as good as a Fender stand-alone reverb tank),
but it the reverb virtually disappears in the distortion channel. I
would think you could find on of these babies for $300.00. They weigh
a freakin' ton!
Bob S.
— Bob
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