"retro novelty act" makes him an asshole in my book, but regardless of that, when I read the article, years ago, it reassured me that I was right about mainstream music industry. Whether Albini adheres to any moral grounds, that's not so important in my opinion. I think most of us won't deal with him. It's just that we need to take DD's advice and remember Albini's article, and come to the conclusion - DIY!
Ran

The Scimitars

Shellac. Yeah that was it. I think we were on the bill first and they got added. It was a very weird show. Our crowd left and his came in. Good for the club, I guess. Don't get me wrong, if we could do it all over again, we would definitely DIY it more than we did, but those were also different times and tour support was nice, even though we paid it back in the end. He was also of a different time, and if he hadn't been Steve Albini, someone else would have.

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kickthe_reverb_
...It's just that we need to take DD's advice and remember Albini's article, and come to the conclusion - DIY!
Ran

exactly, Ran...exactly

neal
your arguments are also a little spotty, but i know what your trying to get across.

I don't think my arguments were spotty at all. selective yes, but sound. just for clarifications sake, Im not trying to pick a fight, I think this is a good d civil discussion, and I enjoy it. all in good spirits!

i think what it comes down to is 4,00$ is not worth doing anything. a cleaning lady makes a lot more than that. how are you suppose to live and make another album on 4 grand. remember humans also have to eat and gain shelter. hah 4 grand is only 3 months rent here in new york city. thats if you have roomates.

obviously there are limits to how low you can go, just as there are limits to how high, and if those limits are crossed, it's no longer a 'fair arrangement'. I dont remeber the exact figures either, and i 'm sure that band got a shitty deal. that wasn't exactly my point....

my take is want to get rich, learn marketing and promotion. this is the one major expense a label puts into a band, that the common musician does not have. you are right, the label takes a huge burdon off the artist on this topic.
again, i really think the point is not that the label makes 700G's and the producer makes 90G's, but the fact that the musucian is the only one who cant make a living from his own product.

... see, this is where my main objection lies. Albini presents some sort of calculation, with a total profit. and then it is assumed that this is money generated by the music, hence by the musicians. At one point, Albini says literally:

rebel without a clue
The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 millon dollars richer

This is simply untrue, sorry. The band writes an album and plays it. at this point they've generated about, uh, zero bucks. then the record company comes in. the producing, the publicity, the set up of the tour, plugging of the record, etc, THAT's what generates the money. Albini's hidden assumption that without the record company that money would have been made as well, is untrue. the band hasn 't made 3 million for the record company, the record company has made three million by using the band. big difference. the product isn't the music, it's the music+ the production+the marketing.

all other things being equal, without the record company they would at this point have made zilch, lacking a decent cd, promotion, a tour, merchandise and plugging.

look, I kow the big RC's are run by assholes. most large companies are, that's how they get large. And I know that contract is a low dirty trick. of course. I'm just saying Albini takes it to the absurd in the other direction.

and I'm also saying, as much as Dick Dale has great advise, he is also a very smart, capable and self restrained guy, but if that band is too stupid to see through an A&R guy's tactics, they most likely lack the intellgence, knowledge and skill to 'take care of business' themselves.

Perhaps Albini just has stupid friends. that's probably it.

WR

Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."

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kickthe_reverb_
It's just that we need to take DD's advice and remember Albini's article, and come to the conclusion - DIY!

Ran, you say this like surf bands have a CHOICE in this matter!! "Hmm, shall we take a $2 million deal from Sony, or shall we remain pure and go DIY? Decisions, decisions...."

Ivan
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The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Just a little footnote...Albini has some recording credits with Man or Astroman on Project Infinity w/ Put your Finger in the socket, Inside the Atom and Sferic Waves. Too bad about his comment regarding SP's.

>

norcalhodad
Just a little footnote...Albini has some recording credits with Man or Astroman on Project Infinity w/ Put your Finger in the socket, Inside the Atom and Sferic Waves. Too bad about his comment regarding SP's.

Thanks to everyone for caring, but I'd feel bad if he had liked us! He's about 180 degrees away from us and most of you all out there. Cold, cold sound, drum machines or robotic beats (when their's a human playing) no melody, made up chords,etc. But hey I can respect that, it's not my cup of tea, but it was unique at the time. I just thought I'd share the story for background. And his message has a lot to it, too, especially in the context of the signing frenzy of grunge and "indie" bands that was going on.
I'd much rather hear musicians who put their heart and soul into the music (and actually worked at it), like Dick Dale or Bo Diddley talk about being f-ed over by the record business and be inspired by them than some kid who came from affluence and got into making noise because he was bored in college and couldn't get laid. When did it become cool to not want people to like your music? Well, I remember when and that was actually one of the reasons we wanted to start SP, so I guess we have people like old Steve-o to thank.
Doesn't surprise me about MOAM, since they were on Touch N Go and were definitely the most "indie-rock culture" type band to have one foot in surfland in the 90s.
Anyway, sorry I contributed to getting this thread off course-back to Dick Dale and The Man!

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Last edited: Oct 05, 2006 06:40:12

Wannes,
Couldn't agree more.
I really meant to apologize for getting away from the article itself as it fits in the thread. But once again you've hit it on the head. It 's the difference between positive and negative. One of your sentences better explained four of my vague paragraphs.
Thanks!
Ted

http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com

yeah, obviously surfbands don't have a choice. well, maybe in Japan? I also wonder how the bambi molestors and the bitch boys are doing, they seem to be pretty big in their home countries. anyway, I was dicussing the general idea more then anything.

btw, not strictly surf, but there was an article on Southern Culture on the Skids in last Continental mag, and on how they have gone about bizniz. Nice read. it's not really my kind of music, but you gotto respect their enterprise.

WR

Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."

https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/

Words of wisdom from the King himself (not Elvis) I got the same advice from Dusty Watson, Slacktones drummer. Great interview .Finally some meat and potatos in an interview, something to take to the bank. Thanks for posting this link.