Whew, what a long thread!

I admit I haven't read it all. I was following the first few pages when the thread started, and then tuned it out. I just checked back in and read the last couple of pages, and feel like I need to throw in my 2 cents.

First of all, this is an amazing book and I want to thank the author for his work and for contributing to this thread. How cool is that?

I ordered this book from Amazon right after the SG101 convention, and my enjoyment of it has easily exceeded my lofty expectations.

I'm one of those guys who - although not a true surfer, loves the beach, and has great memories of beach culture and growing up in California. More than anything, I have a very romantic and nostalgic notion of what the whole Southern California surf scene represents as a positive and fun force in popular culture.

Perhaps my perception might not jibe with external reality, and I definitely do not strive to "live the life" 24/7, but the surf culture as presented in this book has been an extremely positive and enjoyable part of my life. So the tone and direction of this book is right up my alley, so to speak.

However, I always feel compelled to defend the Mermen. IMO, they were easily one of the most dynamic, expressive, and influential surf bands of the 90s.

Everyone has a story on how they got into surf music. The emergence of the Mermen, along with Phil Dirt's excellent Saturday night radio show, and the regular performances by Dick Dale at Slim's in SF were a big part of my re-discovery of the genre in the early '90s.

I always appreciated and still love the retro surf thing, but when I first saw the Mermen open up for Dick Dale around '92 or so (I think they came on stage in diapers?), I was blown away at how effectively they re-interpreted surf music into a dynamic new space with their modern, quasi-psychedelic sound. I became an instant fan and have a lot of fond memories seeing the Mermen regularly at the Paradise Lounge and around the Bay Area in the early to mid 90s.

I knew (and know) a lot of snobby Bay Area classic rock and jazz types who always turned up their noses at retro surf music and used to get mad at me when I played it at parties or when driving around in my car. But the Mermen almost always struck a chord with this group, and really opened up the ears and minds of a lot of people I knew who were previously resistant to surf music. A lot of these people then became more interested and engaged in the entire surf music scene as a result.

So in my experience, the Mermen have had a huge impact (at least in Northern California) on surf music. I can understand that from a Southern California perspective (where it seems to me that the scene is more retro - or in the 3rd wave, more punk/aggro-inspired), they might seem a little hippy-dippy and not very relevant. Perhaps the Mermen need to be experienced live in an appropriate venue to be fully appreciated.

And I do strongly agree that the Mermen and many of their fans represent a sort of bohemian surf underground that is not very relevant to the pop culture aspects as covered in this book. But their contribution and impact on the 3rd wave as a musical force should not be dismissed.

Not to pick a fight with you Brian (not at all), but I'm still having trouble accepting the portrayal of the Mermen here. Maybe it's because I still haven't read the book. I know that's a serious handicap in my making an argument here.

Brian-C
As for the Boardwalkers... you'd have to get past this whole idea of celebrity, or even cult-level fame, to really see the point being made with the Boardwalkers.

I don't want to give the impression my respect for the Mermen is for their celebrity. I've never perceived them as "surf with advertising all over" and so that's never been something about them that has swayed me. If celebrity were what impressed me, I wouldn't be a fan of any surf music at all, including the Mermen (who I would still consider a relatively underground band). I was simply showing that the Mermen have accomplished a ton, and I think to downplay that seems unfair. In a '90s third wave full of bands exploring novel sounds, they were probably the most important in causing people to really step back and reexamine and reconsider what actually does qualify as surf, where to draw the boundaries of the genre. I can't really understand how any book or article mentioning psychedelic surf of the '90s would turn a blind eye to that fact.

it is about the '60s surf boom, which came out of decades of bohemian living, and the music, art and design that came from that setting. The thesis we drive off of is that the earliest pop culture to come out of surfing was almost like a documentary of the lifestyle as it were.

We make the point in one of the later chapters that, after 1966, BOHEMIAN surf culture largely goes underground from there on out. So pointing to the Mermen's large impact with contemporary surf does nothing to sway the argument here.

Here again, I still think the Mermen are relevant. Jim Thomas is a known surfer, a guy who has "lived the life" in a more modern vein (and lots of people have interpreted his music as having reflected that certain connectedness with surfing... which is I guess where the term "ocean music" came from relating to the Mermen). I agree the bohemian aspect of surf music culture is nearly nonexistent today, but that strikes me as more bohemian than the majority of other surf guitarists, who just happen to play surf outside of their day jobs. There are other surf bands whose members actually surf--the Eliminators come to mind in particular--but I feel their music more actively and consciously tries to re_create a bohemian vibe of old, as is the case with most traditional surf bands. It's just kind of a synthesized part of the whole package being offered. The "feel" of the Mermen is most definitely removed from that and is much more modernized, but I think that in much the same way that early surf music strove to recreate the feel of riding waves and living the life, the Mermen's music serves a similar purpose in recreating the big emotions associated with the ocean and a modern surf life. This coupled with their cult success and resonance among the modern surf crowd, the Mermen provide probably _the modern parallel with the '60s surf boom. That's why I still have trouble with their having been snubbed.

That being said, I'm still really looking forward to reading your book.

I'll have a go at this.
First of all, get this book.
Second of all, context. The chapter on the 3rd wave parallels my own personal experience. The first instrumental surf bands I saw live were the Surf Trio, The Phantom Surfers, and The Untamed Youth. These were the bands that made me want to play surf (along with a lifelong obsession with the Beach Boys). All three of these bands had one thing in common: FUN. The kind of fun that made you get up dance with the girls. The kind of fun that made you want to drink more beer than humanly possible. The kind of fun that listening to old surf records held. Rock n' roll fun. Teenage kicks.
I spent my junior high years stoned and listening to classic rock. This bored me. My aunt was obsessed with Frank Zappa. I was over all that. I found my rock n' roll fun in oldies, punk rock, and then delving into surf music. I wanted to make that kind of fun.
The Mermen didn't represent that kind of fun to me and the Pilgrims. To me, Untamed Youth=girls, beer, dancing. Mermen=dudes making semi-orgasmic faces, taking mushrooms, and playing air guitar. Or more simply, rock n' roll vs. rock.
I will say, in hindsight, that I was glad the Mermen were there because it fueled our fire to try and keep our music the way we wanted. Whether we accomplished that goal, I can't say.
The context of the chapter is about the bands and fans in the 90s being "uncool' by the mopey standards of the day (what became "alternative rock").
Now, I became less a fan of the Phantom Surfers after the departure of Johnny Bartlett and their becoming a "comedy" act, but those early singles and LPs, along with the Untamed Youth, Jackie and the Cedrics, plus the Mummies and other garage acts bringing the same energy gave me the teenage fun I felt I had missed out on.
Of course, the Mermen can and could technically play circles around most of these bands, Pilgrims included, but since when did that have anything to do with fun rock n' roll, except in helping to keep it down?
This was one of the points of the chapter, so in context, I see nothing wrong or incorrect with what was written.
Ted Pilgrim

http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com

Last edited: Nov 18, 2008 21:07:54

Just a opinion on what I have read about Mermen shows in Nor. Cal. from their yahoo group with many of their fans on there.
It seems maybe you guys should read a bit of it sometimes.

those people up there really seem to be all about drinking lots of beer, and dancing their asses off. And having tons of fun.

So I'm kinda lost on why people think that its not about that.

I'm not taking side as I love Trad, Prog, and anything in between.
it just seems that people like to make assumptions that everybody at Mermen show is standing there with hands in pockets on shrooms or acid.

not saying that doesnt happen, but there are people dancing and drinking and having fun at those shows too, and I hope that they come back to So. Cal. so I can drag Brian and Kristena, and try to get Dominic to go,

Jeff(bigtikidude)

well I dont Dance, so any moving about and lifting feet is dancing to me.
weather its the twist or the hippy Twirl, its dancing and people are having fun.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Hi Klas,

Thanks for the compliments. I'm glad you enjoyed the Third Wave of Surf chapter. A lot of pages on this thread were devoted to the disagreements concerning our point of view, with regards to that one. Particularly, the issue of the Mermen.

In one of the later chapters in the book, Domenic insisted on saying something about 1966 being the last good year. It was something I lobbied to have pulled from the book, but in collaboration, one must allow for the artistic space for BOTH writers to stretch out. I must admit to not being entirely comfortable at first with EITHER surf revival chapter, but especially the Third Wave one.

The Second Wave still felt like an indigenous thing... like it had somehow still been linked to the First Wave, in more ways than one. The whole idea of the Third Wave struck me as conservative, especially the devotion to just this traditional style of surf. In the case of the Mermen, I didn't mind their being progressive... I was more inclined to think the music boring.

But the real reason I felt the Third wave of Surf chapter should be allowed to go forward was the unique sense of internationalism, which the Second Wave didn't have. The First Wave yielded surf music bands all over the world, but each scene outside of Southern California was isolated from the others.

Also, I felt that the burlesque ideology was one of the most interesting associations, as it gives the whole Third Wave something that was drastically missing in the Second Wave -- the notion of the bohemian cabaret, as well as the input of women in a male-dominated genre. With the First Wave, you had the actual American Beat Generation, which pervaded the artwork, the drumming, the sax playing... even down to surf/bongo records... Dick Dale playing a beatnik in "Beach Party" and on and on and on. I suppose the Second Wave had the actual punk and new wave movement, but there wasn't anything particular that screamed "bohemian." I think, if anything, associating the Third Wave of Surf with Arthur Lyman records (filled with percussion, bongos and crazy flutes and shit), as well as a raunchy cabaret vibe (via the burlesque) was what made the chapter successful.

The last thing that made me okay with a chapter hell-bent on praising the virtues of "the past," and trying to revive the past, was that the surfing world, as it was in the '90s, was so utterly grotesque, you'd be hard-pressed to find anything coming out of REAL surfing that was compelling whatsoever. I'm talking about music, movies, publishing, art, design, fashion. It was all terrible. Even in 1995-96, I looked around surf shops and in surf magazines, and it felt like these people had yet to progress out of the Reagan era.

Things did change by the 2000s, and I tried to show the Mollusk Surf Shop as being but one example of really great design, filmmaking and art in the present. There was a sense of urban graffiti-ness that also had the earthy, bohemian vibe in what Mollusk was doing, but they are by no means the only ones out there.