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Last edited: Sep 23, 2009 21:38:02

I know those standard tricks, sure: choruses using the relative minor of a major key, etc. If I had wanted that, I would have overpaid for a Xerox copy of the circle of fifths from that "Be a Songwriter in 30 Minutes or Less" ad in the back of Crawdaddy magazine.

I am talking about those really fantastic bridges (and surf surprisingly has a few of them). The crazy ones that sound so natural but are actually so weird. The ones that when you look at how the music is written, you say "no way!"

Best are examples, I guess. I might dig some up. Maybe folks here can share their most whacked-out bridge excursions.

SSIV

zak
anything else that jars the listener out of complacency

I believe this quote from "Zak's songwriting tips" is the main point. However you do it. It's the 'splash in the face' section of the song.

Tim O
oestmann guitar

tunes

clips

and you'll get better at it. It's not uncommon to have 2 out of 10 songs be good and the rest you can discard. But constanly putting ideas down keeps the juices flowing and before you know it you'll have a song!

And some songs will have a part that is really strong that might be lifted to another. There are no wasted ideas; they all lead to better things.

I wrote stuff before I was technically good. The only person who ever has to hear what you wrote is you- you can "release" when you're ready.

Thanks, I'm able to randomly make up stuff using chords now, and they sound like REAL songs.

Sonichris
I also like to think that all early 60's fender equipment is happy to be playing surf music again. After all, its the music it was meant to play.

tonetti
If this has been covered before, I apologize for re asking, I am always coming up with riffs, for origional songs, when I am practicing, but my memory is not serving me as well as it used to. and I am wondering what methods do you guys use to write down/remember new tunes. I learned to play completely on my own, and I really dont have much knowledge, as far as chord names etc... I play by ear, and I know chords, and scales (not by name) if you were to ask me to play an f# I would be lost. Should I take the time and learn all of this technical stuff, or just keep it pure and from the heart. I am just wanting to come up with a way to hang on to those good riffs, and not lose them. Should I just record into a cheapo recorder, or is there a simple technique others use. I would to come up with some of my own material, which I can, its just tough to keep track of everything along with a 50 + hour a week job, and 2 kids. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

At the very least you should start to memorize the names of the notes and where they're found on the fretboard. Just get some index cards and drill yourself on them until they're lodged in your brain.

If you can't write down what you're playing (and tab sucks balls for noting rhythm) then get a cheap recorder. Just keep it around you at all times and turn it on when the inspiration strikes.

Trevor von Drat

http://www.myspace.com/vondrats

TvD
At the very least you should start to memorize the names of the notes and where they're found on the fretboard. Just get some index cards and drill yourself on them until they're lodged in your brain.

I certainly wouldn't argue against knowing as much of the neck as possible, but that's a tall order and frightening for someone just getting their toes wet. But with the folks I've brought along I just get them to learn the E and A major and pentatonic scale in at least 3 positions.

If they already play guitar the way tonetti does, forcing them to learn that isn't that intimidating, and in no time at all they're making connections like where the root notes are, and that by shifting up a couple frets they're in another key, and before long (granted it can takes years depending on how much they play) they may not know the whole neck, but they've picked up a significant part of the most important areas of the neck for the styles they play in terms of where the notes are, and most importantly they can transpose their knowledge. If someone tells them a key, they can play what they always play, but in the right key. And for alot of folks, that's all they want to do.

Your way is definitely the way to go for someone who's committed to learning the neck, but a less demanding approach is "enough" for alot of people.

With my pupils, I only emphasize the importance of learning all the notes on the bottom two strings because that's where all the most common chords and scales are rooted. I use the menemonic 'Get A Big Car, Drive Everywhere' to teach the notes over the first three spots on those two strings - and if you grasp the order the notes go in then its easy for them to get the others.

Then you get the next two strings 'free' because the octave is under the 3rd finger two frets and two strings up for each of those two bass strings. The top string is the same notes as the bottom - so that just leaves the pesky B string. It's not very much to learn when you look at it like that.

http://www.myspace.com/thepashuns

Youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery.

I haven't read through this thread, mostly because I believe that writing a song is somewhat a personal process. As they say, learn the rules and then break them.

To me there are a few essential things for a song to work. A) It must move a person in some way (help you visualize a different place, make you wanna shake yer ass, create an emotion or mood)--if it doesn't do this it has failed. To accomplish that the song must B) Have an interesting arrangement. C) Have an interesting melody. In other words the song must go somewhere.

I think you could take any great song and it would fulfill those criteria. That's mostly what I aim for when I write.

(defunct) Thee Jaguar Sharks

Plus! Other stuff not surf: https://soundcloud.com/jamesmileshq
Enjoy every minute

When it comes to guitar I'm entirely self taught. The way I learned (paid dues?) how notes correspond with chords is actually by writing songs. Either have someone play some chords or record yourself playing some and then try to pick out some melodies. The "right"notes will make themselves known soon enough. You'll also discover the 'accidentals' along the way that work well. This process may be more straightforward if you have a keyboard to learn on, as the left hand could hold the chords as long as you need and you'd be free to experiment. If you want to really pay dues try to learn musical notation and write out the melodies you've made up. That'll force you to learn the names of the notes you just played. It's a worthy endeavor for those motivated to advance.

This method is akin to the argument about learning by ear vs. using tab/music. I think it superior in that it develops your own sensabilities and sets you on a path to discover your own particular style.

BTW: I really like Estreets simplified method of learning the notes on a guitar

Danny Snyder

"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo

Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta

Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party

Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF