Super Reverb speaker question

John

Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 611
Monterey County, California
3 News Pins

Posted on Jan 05 2009 04:20 PM

I just discovered that I've blown one of the four speakers in one of my 1966 Super Reverbs. Any advice on replacing one speaker out of four? Is it advisable to replace all four? I have a lead on four matched, vintage early 70's CTS speakers for about $100/each. If it's OK to replace only the one speaker, any suggestions on the best brand to go for? New/vintage? Dealers for them?

—

www.johnblair.us
www.soundofthesurf.com

Top

eddiekatcher

Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
1 News Pin

Posted on Jan 05 2009 04:30 PM

Ah Ha! I beat ya. Between Christmas 1964 and my high school graduation in 1965, I blew all four in my 64 Super Reverb three times.......and that is the truth. The early ones came with paper voice coil formers..........who's smart idea was that?

At the time, most of my friends gave up and replaced theirs with the Jensen replacements that had a lifetime guarantee.

I just kept blowing them until I gave up and bought a Twin Reverb. Blew those too...........Blew the stock speakers, blew a set of Altec replacements and a set of JBL's. I have a long history of speaker destruction.

I do love modern speakers............

Eddie (damn loud back then) Katcher

—

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

Top

eddiekatcher

Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
1 News Pin

Posted on Jan 05 2009 08:15 PM

You didn't hear this from me, but I've heard that Weber is pretty good with speaker restorations.

That amp guru Weber (Gerald) feels like all the old speakers are time bombs because the bonding glues are drying out and the paper cones are rotting. You might dig the blue alnico speakers in the Bassman re-issue. I have several of the current Twin Reverb speakers and they are pretty damn good.

Nay sayer ed

—

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

Top

casey

Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 521
2 Security Pins

Posted on Jan 05 2009 09:11 PM

I picked up a set of 4 CTS alnico speakers from a Super Reverb off of E-bay about a year ago for around $300. Got them just in case anything goes wrong with the one's in my Super Reverb. I think they shown up on there fairly often. Its worth watching. Orange Co. speakers in California has a good reputation for reconing speakers.

Top

mad_dog

Joined: Sep 23, 2008
Posts: 349
Montclair, NJ

Posted on Jan 07 2009 08:26 AM

No reason to replace more than just the one, if the others are OK. One healthy CTS alnico would be the easiest and best solution.

Ted Weber supposedly is making replicas of that speaker now. I don't know the speaker code for it, but check the forums at www.webervst.com. My '67 BFSR had a couple problems speakers. My tech told me the CTS voice cois can seize up. He was able to recone 2 of mine successfully. I much prefer that amp with those speakers.

Top

SlacktoneDave

Joined: Jul 01, 2006
Posts: 657
1 News Pin

Posted on Jan 07 2009 08:27 AM

Recone the blown speaker. In my experience, it will never sound as good as the original, though. Jensen or CTS Alnico? The CTS will have the code # 137 somewhere on the basket. Jensen will have 220 as the code. The CTS Alnico has a composite coil former. It's paper and aluminum. They were probably trying to reach a compromise between good sound/ frequency response, with a light weight paper former, and also used some aluminum to help deal with the heat. These speakers have a very distinct sound that a recone cannot capture. The Jensen will have a paper coil former. I have a theory that the original cones of old speakers were made with paper from old growth trees, and therefore are going to sound different than newly made cones. Longer fibers? Recent recones I have done are an Elac Alnico 10" from a Vox ac10 cabinet. It came back from Orange County Spkr. quieter, and darker sounding than the 48 year old original. A while back I needed to recone a blue Vox Alnico 12" from my '64 ac30. It was reconed with the reissue Celestion kit, not a generic Waldom replacement cone, and it also became quieter, and darker soundinf than the other original '64 speaker. And as a side note, reconing JBL's is a complete disaster.

I'd check with Tonetubby for a alnico or ceramic replacement. Speakers from tonetubby are the only ones I've heard that retain the coherency of the old cones. I have a set of 10" speakers that were made by Weber for Derrick Trucks that are real nice, but I don't know if they are being sold to the public. Check into that, too, or, get the original model. ~ dave

Top

eddiekatcher

Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2778
Atlanta, GA
1 News Pin

Posted on Jan 07 2009 09:30 AM

I agree with Dave, avoid Waldom parts if at all possible. The speaker will work ok, but for whatever reason, it won't sound the same as before. In a Super Reverb you COULD put the recone on the bottom and make sure that no soundman mics that speaker at a show.

I had no luck getting old JBL's reconed either. I have a pile of D-130 frames. I just gave up on them years back.

ed

—

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

Top

casey

Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 521
2 Security Pins

Posted on Jan 07 2009 10:03 AM

Regarding re-cones - I bought a '66 Vibrolux long distance a year ago, with the Jensen Gold-Label speakers. Apparently it was dropped on its front during shipping and both voice coils were displaced forward, tearing the speaker cones. I had the speakers re-coned at Orange Co. Speakers. They don't sound that good to me ( they are supposed to be the most desirable for a VR). I ended up replacing them with two of my spare CTS alnicos from the '70's Super Reverb.

Top

Ruhar

Joined: Jun 21, 2007
Posts: 3909
San Diego, CA
United States

Posted on Jan 07 2009 10:46 AM

Regarding JBL recones, Orange County Speaker did a fantastic job of reconing one of my D120F orange baskets. I could not distinguish the sound difference when I got it back. (But then again, ears have a terrible memory of sound). Its sitting in the same cabinet as an original cone D120F gray basket. I wouldn't hesitate to have them do another JBL recone.

—

Ryan
The Secret Samurai Website
The Secret Samurai on Facebook

Top

John

Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 611
Monterey County, California
3 News Pins

Posted on Jan 22 2009 02:10 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions and thoughts. Reconing the blown speaker was way too iffy...it looked like it had been reconed once before. After some consideration given the apparent age of the other 3 speakers, and since my second '66 Super Reverb had been outfitted with 2 Jensen P10Rs and 2 P10Qs before I bought it, I ended up buying an identical set of Jensens for the amp with the blown speaker. I've now got 2 '66 Super Reverbs with matching speakers and they sound great.

John

—

www.johnblair.us
www.soundofthesurf.com

Top

John Joined: Aug 23, 2007 Posts: 611 Monterey County, California	Posted on Jan 05 2009 04:20 PM I just discovered that I've blown one of the four speakers in one of my 1966 Super Reverbs. Any advice on replacing one speaker out of four? Is it advisable to replace all four? I have a lead on four matched, vintage early 70's CTS speakers for about $100/each. If it's OK to replace only the one speaker, any suggestions on the best brand to go for? New/vintage? Dealers for them? — www.johnblair.us www.soundofthesurf.com Top
eddiekatcher Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 2778 Atlanta, GA	Posted on Jan 05 2009 04:30 PM Ah Ha! I beat ya. Between Christmas 1964 and my high school graduation in 1965, I blew all four in my 64 Super Reverb three times.......and that is the truth. The early ones came with paper voice coil formers..........who's smart idea was that? At the time, most of my friends gave up and replaced theirs with the Jensen replacements that had a lifetime guarantee. I just kept blowing them until I gave up and bought a Twin Reverb. Blew those too...........Blew the stock speakers, blew a set of Altec replacements and a set of JBL's. I have a long history of speaker destruction. I do love modern speakers............ Eddie (damn loud back then) Katcher — Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps? Top
eddiekatcher Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 2778 Atlanta, GA	Posted on Jan 05 2009 08:15 PM You didn't hear this from me, but I've heard that Weber is pretty good with speaker restorations. That amp guru Weber (Gerald) feels like all the old speakers are time bombs because the bonding glues are drying out and the paper cones are rotting. You might dig the blue alnico speakers in the Bassman re-issue. I have several of the current Twin Reverb speakers and they are pretty damn good. Nay sayer ed — Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps? Top
casey Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 521	Posted on Jan 05 2009 09:11 PM I picked up a set of 4 CTS alnico speakers from a Super Reverb off of E-bay about a year ago for around $300. Got them just in case anything goes wrong with the one's in my Super Reverb. I think they shown up on there fairly often. Its worth watching. Orange Co. speakers in California has a good reputation for reconing speakers. Top
mad_dog Joined: Sep 23, 2008 Posts: 349 Montclair, NJ	Posted on Jan 07 2009 08:26 AM No reason to replace more than just the one, if the others are OK. One healthy CTS alnico would be the easiest and best solution. Ted Weber supposedly is making replicas of that speaker now. I don't know the speaker code for it, but check the forums at www.webervst.com. My '67 BFSR had a couple problems speakers. My tech told me the CTS voice cois can seize up. He was able to recone 2 of mine successfully. I much prefer that amp with those speakers. Top
SlacktoneDave Joined: Jul 01, 2006 Posts: 657	Posted on Jan 07 2009 08:27 AM Recone the blown speaker. In my experience, it will never sound as good as the original, though. Jensen or CTS Alnico? The CTS will have the code # 137 somewhere on the basket. Jensen will have 220 as the code. The CTS Alnico has a composite coil former. It's paper and aluminum. They were probably trying to reach a compromise between good sound/ frequency response, with a light weight paper former, and also used some aluminum to help deal with the heat. These speakers have a very distinct sound that a recone cannot capture. The Jensen will have a paper coil former. I have a theory that the original cones of old speakers were made with paper from old growth trees, and therefore are going to sound different than newly made cones. Longer fibers? Recent recones I have done are an Elac Alnico 10" from a Vox ac10 cabinet. It came back from Orange County Spkr. quieter, and darker sounding than the 48 year old original. A while back I needed to recone a blue Vox Alnico 12" from my '64 ac30. It was reconed with the reissue Celestion kit, not a generic Waldom replacement cone, and it also became quieter, and darker soundinf than the other original '64 speaker. And as a side note, reconing JBL's is a complete disaster. I'd check with Tonetubby for a alnico or ceramic replacement. Speakers from tonetubby are the only ones I've heard that retain the coherency of the old cones. I have a set of 10" speakers that were made by Weber for Derrick Trucks that are real nice, but I don't know if they are being sold to the public. Check into that, too, or, get the original model. ~ dave Top
eddiekatcher Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 2778 Atlanta, GA	Posted on Jan 07 2009 09:30 AM I agree with Dave, avoid Waldom parts if at all possible. The speaker will work ok, but for whatever reason, it won't sound the same as before. In a Super Reverb you COULD put the recone on the bottom and make sure that no soundman mics that speaker at a show. I had no luck getting old JBL's reconed either. I have a pile of D-130 frames. I just gave up on them years back. ed — Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps? Top
casey Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 521	Posted on Jan 07 2009 10:03 AM Regarding re-cones - I bought a '66 Vibrolux long distance a year ago, with the Jensen Gold-Label speakers. Apparently it was dropped on its front during shipping and both voice coils were displaced forward, tearing the speaker cones. I had the speakers re-coned at Orange Co. Speakers. They don't sound that good to me ( they are supposed to be the most desirable for a VR). I ended up replacing them with two of my spare CTS alnicos from the '70's Super Reverb. Top
Ruhar Joined: Jun 21, 2007 Posts: 3909 San Diego, CA	Posted on Jan 07 2009 10:46 AM Regarding JBL recones, Orange County Speaker did a fantastic job of reconing one of my D120F orange baskets. I could not distinguish the sound difference when I got it back. (But then again, ears have a terrible memory of sound). Its sitting in the same cabinet as an original cone D120F gray basket. I wouldn't hesitate to have them do another JBL recone. — Ryan The Secret Samurai Website The Secret Samurai on Facebook Top
John Joined: Aug 23, 2007 Posts: 611 Monterey County, California	Posted on Jan 22 2009 02:10 PM Thanks for all the suggestions and thoughts. Reconing the blown speaker was way too iffy...it looked like it had been reconed once before. After some consideration given the apparent age of the other 3 speakers, and since my second '66 Super Reverb had been outfitted with 2 Jensen P10Rs and 2 P10Qs before I bought it, I ended up buying an identical set of Jensens for the amp with the blown speaker. I've now got 2 '66 Super Reverbs with matching speakers and they sound great. John — www.johnblair.us www.soundofthesurf.com Top

SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Super Reverb speaker question