stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 02 2014 08:25 AM
I did a search to find what the consensus is for the ultimate strat setup for surf but didn't find anything.
I'm not happy with my 93 American Standard and there is no way to fix the problems so it's time for a new one. I have a frankenstrat but it's not that great either. Just want vintage tone like my 78 but the 78 is for rock and blues so I won't put the big dog strings on it and unblock the trem.
Ash or alder body, pickups, neck, tremolo?
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 02 2014 10:41 AM
|
Hammond101
Joined: Feb 22, 2013
Posts: 342
SoCal USA
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 12:21 AM
So what is not fixable with the '93 Am Std Strat? What don't you like about it?
The Strat is pretty much the same beast regardless of when they were built. There were some duds biult in the early 80s but outside of that... The right strings, PUs and a blend pot or push pull switch to run the neck and bridge PU together and you're good to go with a proper set up.
I have several Strats from the 90s and 00s and they all surf well. All have blend pots or PU switches. PUs are Vintage Noiseless, CS Texas Special or VanZandt. I typically use strings no heavier than .010 on a Strat. My offsets get the "big dog" strings.
— Keep it Drippy Brothers and Sisters!
|
Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1019
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 01:03 AM
You don't need to change switches or pots to get the neck + bridge PU together on a strat. Just interchange the wires from the middle and neck PUs to the 5-position switch. Moreover, this gives you valuable control of bridge PU tone. There is more detail in this post:
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/post/296371/
Another thing you can do that is very easy is get a 7 position EQ pedal. This is likely to get you to the tone you want.
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
Last edited: Feb 03, 2014 01:05:31
|
normj
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Posts: 882
central Indiana
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 02:23 AM
Hello,
I am not positive what pickups are in the Am Std for 1993. I do know Fender changed them from time to time. The pickups in my 96 Am Std work quite well for surf. Those pickups have a vintage Fender voice.
Right after 96, Fender switched to hot Alinco pickups and the delta tone controls. I found that configuration unsuitable for surf. I have a 2003 Am Std that had that configuration. I put Fat 50s in the neck and middle position with a DiMarzio Area 61 at the bridge. I put in normal Strat controls with the exceptiion I wired the bridge pickup onto the 2nd tone pot along with the middle pickup.
Another option I use on similar Strats is to put Fender 57/62 pickups in at the neck and middle postion. The 57/62s do not have a reverse wound pickup for the middle, so you loose the hum-cancelling in postions 2 and 4. Also, since the 57/62s do not have a compensated pickup for the bridge, I find the 57/62 a little weak in the bridge postion. I use either a Fat 50 bridge or a DiMarzio Area 61. Since you are loosing the hum-cancelling, you can swap the wiring between the middle and bridge pickups. That lets you have the neck and bridge together as one of the options on the 5 way switch.
If you prefer to get a different Strat and are willing to have a 7 1/4 inch radius fretboard (you loose big bends), then I suggest you check out an AVRI 62. Those surf quite well.
Talk to you later,
Norm
|
simoncoil
Joined: Sep 28, 2012
Posts: 928
Berlin, Germany
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 02:56 AM
stratdancer wrote:
Or better yet does anyone know what setup Jon Blair typically uses on his strats?
I think John's Strat is set up pretty much in the standard way for surf: Ivan recalls here that John uses 13s and his memory on everything connected with surf music is astoundingly reliable.
And I also think John himself would have mentioned modifications or specialities when he answered the question about his own gear here.
I'd say there are no real rules for setups, just some guidelines: Bigger strings are said to help for tremolo picking, I kept my 10s though (my hands are small and weak...) and just tried different picks over the years. But I raised the strings a bit so they won't rattle against the frets when you hit them hard.
Some prefer to have the vibrato floating because it allows vibrating up and down. I personally like to have it set up touchung the body, because the guitar seems to stay in tune a bit better.
Oh , and another thing: Almost everybody who plays surf on Strats is using roundwounds. Flats sound great on Jazzmasters and Jaguars but somehow not on Strats. (And before anybody asks: Some of the most respected players from the First Wave actually used roundwounds as Brian found out here.)
— Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
"Postcards from the Scrapyard" Vol. 1, 2 & 3 NOW available on various platforms!
"Chaos at the Lobster Lounge" available as LP and download on Surf Cookie Records!
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 06:30 AM
Great feedback and thank you all for posting your thoughts.
The guitar in question is and has been tone dead since I got in the 90's I put texas specials in it around 2000 and they still remain in there today. The year mine was built had Fender combining an alder veneer over basswood which may be what mine is made from. I have the american standard clumpy cast saddles which may be the main culprit. I found these yesterday which could be a good replacement saddle They are vintage but are offset like the newer AS saddles. http://www.callahamguitars.com/up_amstd.htm I will probably order these and give them a try.
The strings I use on my surf strats are Ernie Ball Beefy Slinky's 11/54.
They give great response for trem picking.
I need to pick a good bridge pup. I use the bridge setting mostly for surf. So the Area 61 and Fat 50's might be good choices for that. I was thinking of a Lindy Blues Special or Seymour Duncan Antiquity Surf.
I sure like the idea of messing with the switching and combining the bridge and neck. I will definitely look into that. I'm going to read the links you guys provided now and map out a plan.
I found this link which has some unusual recommendations to get better tone on your start FYI. http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/10-easy-strat-mods-to-improve-primary-tone-1
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 06:51 AM
Squid wrote:
You don't need to change switches or pots to get the neck + bridge PU together on a strat. Just interchange the wires from the middle and neck PUs to the 5-position switch. Moreover, this gives you valuable control of bridge PU tone. There is more detail in this post:
http://surfguitar101.com/forums/post/296371/
Another thing you can do that is very easy is get a 7 position EQ pedal. This is likely to get you to the tone you want.
Squid wrote:
Another simple adjustment that can have big benefits to surf tone: adjust pickup height. Sometimes setting neck PU flush with pickguard while setting bridge PU as high as possible without producing grinding noise works better for surf lead than bridge PU alone...but just sometimes.
The rationale is that the lower PU height at the neck gives it a smaller influence on the overall tone than the bridge PU.
So this adjustment would be useful for switch position 2 when the the wiring is rerouted? That sounds real interesting. Take some of the harshness away from using the bridge by itself. Maybe a fuller tone?
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
RaistMagus
Joined: Mar 30, 2011
Posts: 388
Copenhagen
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 10:52 AM
My experience with a 'dead' strat I have is that nomatter what I change on it (pickups, strings, wiring, tone cap, bridge block) it always somehow sounds the same. I can hear slight differences in it's tone, but it largely remains unchanged. I believe that if you don't like the guitar's tone at all you should consider selling it look for a new one.
But, when I listen to our recordings with the "dead" strat, it sounds great. Nevertheless I got another strat and I'm sure there's a difference for the better.
— https://zakandthekrakens.bandcamp.com/
https://www.dirtyfuse.com
Last edited: Feb 03, 2014 10:54:01
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 12:11 PM
Just back from the guitar god Lays Guitar Repair. He said he could hear some tone muting playing it acoustically. The plan for now is to change the cast saddles, get a callaham cold steel trem block, install a bone nut and do a setup. Recommended to do all this before thinking about changing out the texas specials.
The guitar on the far right is the one that needs the tweaks
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
D22
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 2056
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 12:55 PM
Try a different pick. Seriously, you will be amazed what that single, solitary change can do.
—
Last edited: Feb 03, 2014 12:56:34
|
D22
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 2056
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 01:00 PM
The bone nut (TUSQ) install will do wonders too.
—
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 01:21 PM
Thanks! I just put a bone nut on my black strat this weekend. Looking forward to getting this one done.
I guess I need to search the thread for the picks. I use the grey Max Grip by Dunlop .6. Maybe this one isn't the best choice. Did I read the old classic Fender tortoise shell is like the highest rated?
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
Squid
Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1019
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 01:25 PM
stratdancer wrote:
change the cast saddles, get a callaham cold steel trem block, install a bone nut
For possible muting the nut material affects only open strings of course.
Guitarfetish.com sells trem blocks notably cheaper than callaham costs, and you can choose brass or steel. Brass and steel have the same density, so the best trem block should be the heaviest one. Guitarfetish did not state total weight of trem block.
I haven't tried tusq but graphite saddles plainly muted tones when I tried them, and I had to switch back to metal.
— Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com
Last edited: Feb 03, 2014 13:26:12
|
normj
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Posts: 882
central Indiana
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 01:56 PM
stratdancer wrote:
I guess I need to search the thread for the picks. I use the grey Max Grip by Dunlop .6. Maybe this one isn't the best choice. Did I read the old classic Fender tortoise shell is like the highest rated?
I don't know how one would rate picks. Pick preference really is a matter of personal taste. I have used Fender celluloid picks for a very long time. Try one in heavy or extra heavy to see if you like the sound.
I like the Seymour Duncan Surf pickups. I have a set in one of my project Strats. However, I don't like to mix Fender and Seymour Duncan single coils. Some where on his site, Seymour explains what you have to do if you mix his single coils with Fender.
I have the same set of strings you use on one of my Strats. I like the larger size bass strings for trem picking. I have 11 Chromes on one of my Strats. I have 16s on one I use primarily for trem picking. The 11-54s make a nice compromise.
Talk to you later,
Norm
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 02:32 PM
normj wrote:
stratdancer wrote:
I guess I need to search the thread for the picks. I use the grey Max Grip by Dunlop .6. Maybe this one isn't the best choice. Did I read the old classic Fender tortoise shell is like the highest rated?
I don't know how one would rate picks. Pick preference really is a matter of personal taste. I have used Fender celluloid picks for a very long time. Try one in heavy or extra heavy to see if you like the sound.
I like the Seymour Duncan Surf pickups. I have a set in one of my project Strats. However, I don't like to mix Fender and Seymour Duncan single coils. Some where on his site, Seymour explains what you have to do if you mix his single coils with Fender.
I have the same set of strings you use on one of my Strats. I like the larger size bass strings for trem picking. I have 11 Chromes on one of my Strats. I have 16s on one I use primarily for trem picking. The 11-54s make a nice compromise.
Talk to you later,
Norm
I have been considering the SD surf. Heard some really good things about that one in particular but will read up on mixing it with the texas specials.
Yes I really like the Beefy Slinkies. Nice and bright, bendable for leads and good and heavy on the bottom end for tone and trem picking.
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2537
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 02:36 PM
Squid wrote:
stratdancer wrote:
change the cast saddles, get a callaham cold steel trem block, install a bone nut
For possible muting the nut material affects only open strings of course.
Guitarfetish.com sells trem blocks notably cheaper than callaham costs, and you can choose brass or steel. Brass and steel have the same density, so the best trem block should be the heaviest one. Guitarfetish did not state total weight of trem block.
I haven't tried tusq but graphite saddles plainly muted tones when I tried them, and I had to switch back to metal.
Thanks for the heads up on that Squid. 21.00 instead of 100.00. It looks like callaham is the only one that makes the vintage saddle with the offset screw. They are 40.00 so it's now 60.00 for the package instead of 125.00. I like saving money!
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
normj
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Posts: 882
central Indiana
|
Posted on Feb 03 2014 10:19 PM
Here is what I read over at SD's site.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/faq/frequently-asked/installation-an/are_seymour_dun/
It was in the FAQs Installation and Tech Tips. Are Seymour Duncan and Fender single coil pickups compatible?
I do like the Antiquity II Surf pickups. I sprang for a full set to put into one of my Strats. I also like the Fender Custom Shop Fat 50s. Those came in my 1994 Dick Dale Signature Strat. Now Fender puts them in the (new) American Standard.
Talk to you later,
Norm
|
RaistMagus
Joined: Mar 30, 2011
Posts: 388
Copenhagen
|
Posted on Feb 04 2014 02:30 AM
@stratdancer
I'm very curious about the result of your overhaul of the guitar. Please do keep us informed on how you like the guitar after these mods.
@normj
How do the fat 50s compare with the SD Antiquity Surf pickups in your opinion?
— https://zakandthekrakens.bandcamp.com/
https://www.dirtyfuse.com
Last edited: Feb 04, 2014 02:31:24
|
normj
Joined: Apr 26, 2010
Posts: 882
central Indiana
|
Posted on Feb 04 2014 02:49 AM
RaistMagus wrote:
@normj
How do the fat 50s compare with the SD Antiquity Surf pickups in your opinion?
That is harder for me to say than you might expect. The Fat 50s are in my Custom Shop Dick Dale Signature Strat. I have 16-65 round wound strings on it. The Seymour Duncan Antiquity Surf pickups were in a project Strat I had. It was a Squier Body with a MIM Classic 60s neck. I had Fender 11-50 flatwounds on it. I say had, because I took the pickups out and I am using them in a surfboard Strat I am building. The pickups were in very different quality guitars. Therefore a comparison is difficult. Those guitar sounded a lot different (more than just the strings). I would say the SD Surf pickups are closer to the Fender 57/62 pickups in sound.
By the way, the Fender 57/62s are the pickups I use most often in my project builds. They sound similar to the SD Surfs and cost a lot less.
Talk to you later,
Norm
|
May Birthdays 
