RaistMagus
Joined: Mar 30, 2011
Posts: 388
Copenhagen
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Posted on Mar 18 2013 09:13 AM
Here's a comparison of three reverb pans using a Fender 63 RI reverb unit. They are a MOD 4AB3C1B, a new (2003, made-in-USA) Accutronics 4AB3C1C that came with the unit and an old (1973) and wasted Accutronics 4AB3C1B that came with the amp.
There's obvioulsy something wrong with the old tank because sometimes it hisses loudly. You can hear the hiss on the vid but live it's much louder. And if I kick it it takes a long time for it to become silent again.
I prefer the MOD pan, the 2003 Accutronics is more trebley and it leaves a trail of hiss in the wake of chords. I find the MOD mellower and drippier, without getting too edgy.
Maybe I'll do a tubes comparison thing sometime later.
Equipment used:
Pick: Dunlop Ultex Sharp 0.90
Strings: Ernie Ball Power Slinky (.011 -.048)
Guitar: Fender Classic Player 60s Stratocaster (w/ steel block, 57/62 pickups, middle pickup used, not connected to tone pot)
Reverb unit: Fender 63 Reverb Reissue, retubed with a 6K6 RCA, a 12AT7 JAN Philips and a 12AX7 Groove Tubes. Knob settings: Dwell 7, Mixer 6, Tone 7
Amp: 1973 Fender Super Reverb, recapped and retubed (Tung Sol tubes) with original CTS Alnico speakers. Plugged into the vibrato channel. Amp knob settings: Volume 4, Treble 6, Middle 5, Bass 3, Reverb 0, Speed 0, Intensity 0
Cables: Evidence 'The Melody', 2m long, Bullet Cable 3m long
Mic: Shure SM57
Audio Interface: Lexicon Alpha USB
Software: Samplitude
— https://zakandthekrakens.bandcamp.com/
https://www.dirtyfuse.com
Last edited: Mar 18, 2013 16:42:18
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Mar 18 2013 09:32 AM
This is great. Very thorough and helpful. Try a 7025 in placed of the 12AX7 sometime.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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derekirving
Joined: Nov 03, 2011
Posts: 660
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Posted on Mar 18 2013 12:14 PM
Great comparison. I have a MOD pan and accutronics pan for my RI reverb unit. I go back between which one I like better. The MOD is warmer with longer smoother decay and has more reverb range. The accutronics is brighter with clankler decay and has less reverb range than the MOD. (e.g. MOD at 3 equals the accutronics at 5 on the mix +/-). That being said, there's something (at times charming) about the tone of the accutronics which seems more vintage/authentic to me. I suppose I should experiment more with the tone knob when using the MOD pan. At times I forget to twist knobs when I change the pans. Usually after having the MOD in a a gig or two I'll go back to the Accutronics pan and I'm more pleased (or should I say this is the sound I'm expecting) - only to go through the switch out routine again 
Last edited: Mar 18, 2013 12:21:18
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CrazyAces
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4054
Buffalo, N.Y.
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Posted on Mar 18 2013 01:46 PM
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LoeD
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Posts: 310
Germany
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Posted on Mar 18 2013 02:59 PM
I made a similar experience with my DIY 6G15. I have a TAD pan (I believe it´s a MOD pan just with a different label) and and old Accutronics. The Accu is crsiper and delivers a more high pitch reverb but less intense than the TAD pan which sounds full and big. Fits pretty much to the results of the video.
LoeD
— here comes the WEST SAMOA SURFER LEAGUE
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dave
Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Posts: 109
Center of Michigan
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Posted on Mar 18 2013 03:07 PM
Noel - what kind of difference does the 7025 tube make in the sound?
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Noel
Joined: Mar 15, 2011
Posts: 8528
Back in Piitsburgh, Pennsylvania, where I grew up.
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Posted on Mar 18 2013 03:24 PM
dave wrote:
Noel - what kind of difference does the 7025 tube make in the sound?
It's slightly warmer. Not huge but noticeable.
— This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.
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pavlovsdog
Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 297
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Posted on Mar 18 2013 04:16 PM
Buying a MOD pan for my 6G15 build after that demo.
I usually can't hear minute differences in tone but that was night and day for me. Definitely a bigger and fuller tone.
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RaistMagus
Joined: Mar 30, 2011
Posts: 388
Copenhagen
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Posted on Mar 19 2013 03:31 AM
I'm glad it was of help to you guys. I understand that every two tanks can sound different even if they are of the same specs and brand and maybe even of the same production run. But it seems the results of this comparison are in accord with LoeD's experience (and with the genreral concensus I've been hearing/reading) so I believe that after all, there is valid a point in the MOD vs Accutronics generalization.
— https://zakandthekrakens.bandcamp.com/
https://www.dirtyfuse.com
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klaatu
Joined: Mar 14, 2013
Posts: 14
Atlanta, Georgia
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Posted on Mar 19 2013 07:10 AM
I was impressed. There will doubtless be a MOD tank in my near future.
— Navigation and Terminal Guidance systems, Gemini 13
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irv78
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Posts: 99
Austria
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Posted on Mar 22 2013 04:21 AM
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I think I can contribute a little to this thread because I made a similar comparison some time ago:
I wanted to make an objective (as possible) comparison between my accutronics (current production by belton) and my TAD (= MOD) reverb pan.
The audio is re-amped and recorded directly from the Reverb output - no guitar amp no microphone. What you hear is twice the exactly same guitar signal through the Reverb straight into the computer again.
To hear the differences between the pans more clearly I set the Mix to full. The other settings were: Dwell - noon and Tone - noon
Here we go:
TAD Pan
Accutronics Pan
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LoeD
Joined: Feb 29, 2012
Posts: 310
Germany
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Posted on Mar 22 2013 04:31 AM
In my opinion the differences in the video are bigger than in your reamped version. although its slightly audible that the TAD pan´s drip has more midrange than the accutronics and slightly more definition.
LoeD
— here comes the WEST SAMOA SURFER LEAGUE
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irv78
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Posts: 99
Austria
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Posted on Mar 22 2013 04:53 AM
Yes, that's true - the TAD pan sounds bigger and fuller. But the problem I have with the TAD is the long decay time. I actually prefer the Accutronics because of the brighter and splashier sound I can get with it.
I've put the TAD pan in my Deluxe Reverb and it was a big improvement here. I think the TAD pan is better suited for onboard reverb. But every pan is different and YMMV and IMHO of course ;)
—
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dave
Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Posts: 109
Center of Michigan
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Posted on Mar 22 2013 06:02 AM
Are the MOD pans hard to get in the US, is there a good web source your all using?
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bjoish
Joined: Jul 06, 2010
Posts: 597
Stockholm
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Posted on Mar 22 2013 09:36 AM
dave wrote:
Are the MOD pans hard to get in the US, is there a good web source your all using?
I recommend www.amplifiedparts.com.
Even for shipping to Europe it worked great.
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
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Posted on Dec 18 2013 05:46 PM
I just went through this with a short-tank, so will provide a few comments. I realize the thread is a bit dated, but someone else started a new thread and then was directed here. What I discovered was that:
- the Accutronics of my youth is not the same sound. (Now owned by Belton I understand.) And the sound (for me) shows the change.
- The OEM reverb shipping in some Fender amps (Hot Rod series perhaps, Blues Jr. absolutely) leaves all kinds of high-frequency artifacts floating around and, on some of them, the reverb is not useable above 2-3.
I installed a MOD tank (direct replacement), as well as an audio taper pot for the reverb on the Blues Jr. Springs inside were oriented differently between the two also, and the MOD tank was noticeably "tidier" in terms of its overall physical presentation.
Source for that tank was Antique Electronic Supply:
http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/reverb_tanks
Great selection, service, and also ship internationally. They have bags, manuals, all the specs to help select tank you need, etc.
Job was 10 minutes; mostly/literally with screwdriver in hand.
It was absolutely best $18 spent in a very long time.
Using an audio taper pot it is very even & predictable through its range and it actually gets close to VERY nice acceptable surfy stuff 10-12. (I don't intend to leave it that way all the time, but do like the essential sound so an FRV-1 is coming whether Saint Nick brings it or not.)
The MOD tank as compared to the (new) Accutronics is pretty luxurious for a short-tank, and the screaming-zombie acoustic artifacts are gone.
I give it 2 thumbs-up, which is all the thumbs I have.
Accutronics/Belton above, MOD tank below.
Get wet.
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
Last edited: Dec 18, 2013 17:49:54
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Stormtiger
Joined: Dec 12, 2006
Posts: 2688
Ventura, CA
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Posted on Dec 18 2013 06:10 PM
I had the same experience as Badger. My Blues Jr. reverb died, I replaced the tank with a MOD from Antique Electronics Supply ($17) and installed it in minutes. To my ears it is an improvement.
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bambammedina357
Joined: Oct 31, 2013
Posts: 9
Wisconsin
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Posted on Dec 18 2013 06:20 PM
I'm totally getting the MOD my buddy just showed me his blues Jr with a MOD tank its sounded great my old danelectro,real wet reverb and warm.thanks for the update.I also have the FRV-1 it gets reeeeaaal trebley.BUT I have my setting for it with the dwell on 3oclock the tone all the way down(it doesn't do much but add a TON of highs)even with it down I don't hear a difference in my tone.and I have the mixer at 10oclock
— -BAM BAM-
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bambammedina357
Joined: Oct 31, 2013
Posts: 9
Wisconsin
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Posted on Dec 18 2013 06:29 PM
I think you'll love the pedal any setting you get it at.I did a shootout with a vintage 63 tank at a music shop by me.and it isn't the same thing,but dialed in right and its damn close.Let me know what you think of it.I don't know many folks that have them.i see more and more sold to used gear stores.or if you have seen them in another forum thread
— -BAM BAM-
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Badger
Joined: Nov 16, 2013
Posts: 4537
Wisconsin
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Posted on Dec 18 2013 07:03 PM
bambammedina357 wrote:
I think you'll love the pedal any setting you get it at.I did a shootout with a vintage 63 tank at a music shop by me.and it isn't the same thing,but dialed in right and its damn close.Let me know what you think of it.I don't know many folks that have them.i see more and more sold to used gear stores.or if you have seen them in another forum thread
My impressions as well. I don't gig anymore, so no blonde speaker cab, with a blonde head, and a blonde outboard reverb on it (ok, so there's a theme there). A little combo works great and the rest of the reverb on the amp is very versatile; the FRV-1 will be for I want THAT SOUND NOW. Tone pots are tone pots; they rotate so you can adjust them, that's why they do that. It'll likely get set for one sound & stay that way.
Anyway, hope the previous post was of benefit. Now I have OEM short tank, Belton, 1 each, that will sit around unless someone buys it locally because it's not worth even putting up for the trouble of a sale & shipping. Fair trade tho', the MOD tank is great. Maybe I can trade it to the amp guy in the city for a nice set of flat-wounds....
— Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel
DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.
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