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SurfGuitar101 Forums » The Shallow End »

Permalink Why not more Kickstarter? (Eye opener from The Economist)

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Not that I expect anyone from this scene to pull down a cool $1.2M for their next Instro/Surf project, but man... talk about opportunity. Wondering why there isn't more Kickstarter activity Confused

http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/06/crowdfunding-music

Crowdfunding music
Busking for millions

Jun 5th 2012, 12:18 by G.F. | SEATTLE

AMANDA PALMER learned everything she needed to know to raise nearly $1.2m for her latest album as a street performer. Ms Palmer says that six years of busking, often as a living statue called "The Eight-Foot Bride", led her to realise that people willing to toss money in a hat do so according to their means and interest rather than in response to a specific reward.

With that in mind, she structured a crowdfunding project on Kickstarter to recoup the production costs of the album, recorded in Melbourne earlier this year, and an associated tour, "Theatre Is Evil" by "Amanda Palmer & the Grand Theft Orchestra". She blazed past her $100,000 goal, and achieved her final total on May 31st with nearly 25,000 individuals backing the project. Ms Palmer hosted a street bacchanal countdown in Brooklyn that evening as the project hit its close. (Readers of a delicate nature should be warned that Ms Palmer's Kickstarter page features some images of exuberant nudity.)

Ms Palmer's project is not the first among musicians. Nor is it unique. But it is the largest by far to date. Most contributors gave $125 or less. Ms Palmer offered a download of the album for anything above $1, a CD for those who sent $25 or more and a vinyl for anyone who splurged $50. More generous donors could attend intimate art-gallery acoustic events connected with artwork created by Ms Palmer and many others for an associated art book.

Then there were 34 pledges of $5,000 each, enough to secure a private house party with her in the next 18 months. Some of those she will fulfill while on tour; others will require special trips. That carries costs, but lets her expand her fan base. Many of the house parties were self-organised by groups of as many as 50 people who each kicked in to a kitty.

Her effort—another in a series of million-dollar projects facilitated by Kickstarter since the start of the year—took years to plan. She experimented with self-releasing three boutique efforts first, and then she and her husband, the genre-bending novelist and comics writer Neil Gaiman with 1.7m Twitter followers, floated a more modest Kickstarter outing last October. Ms Palmer then met with Kickstarter to dissect that project and learn from the most successful efforts (like an electronic-paper watch, the Pebble, which passed $10m).

Ms Palmer is the latest musician to turn to devotees directly, disintermediating media gatekeepers. Ms Palmer and Brian Viglione started their group, The Dresden Dolls, a Weimar-styled "punk cabaret" act, in 2000 and signed with a subsidiary of Warner Music Group in 2004. Yet despite releasing a successful album and several singles, Ms Palmer felt constrained. When she approached her label with new ideas, drawing from a background in performance and art, they were slapped down. "I used to be punished for my enthusiasm," she recalls.

No longer. For the Brooklyn countdown she had her permanent staff of twelve find 60 telephone books and hire another dozen people to write the names of backers on the pages. These were torn out and the names held against the glass of a large, aquarium-like contraption during the event, which was streamed live over the internet, culminating with Ms Palmer nude beneath a dress of balloons that were popped by revellers as the deadline struck.

She has always pursued a close connection with her audience, staying after every show to sign autographs and chat. She blogs, tweets to over 500,000 followers, reads forum posts and responds to e-mail. Some wondered whether Ms Palmer really needed so much money to finance her endeavour. She responded with a salty but detailed explanation of where the dollars go in music production, and in Kickstarter projects. Success does not come cheap.

Fady

El Mirage @ ReverbNation

Obviously Ms. Palmer's take was the exception, but I'm impressed with how many projects by "nobodies" got $100k plus, and many, many more well into the 10's of thousands of dollars neighborhood.

www.kickstarter.com/discover/categories/music/most-funded?ref=more#

Fady

El Mirage @ ReverbNation

Last edited: Jun 05, 2012 12:53:13

Scott, Dave, and John's new band, The Pynnacles, raised $5 grand in two months to record their album.

http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com

I have to say this is very cool.

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Think I'm gonna use it to raise vacation money.

Radio Free Bakersfield--60 Minutes of TWANG, CRUNCH, OOMPH.
http://radiofreebakersfield.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Radio-Free-Bakersfield/172410279636
http://www.sandiegojoe.com/rfb.htm

I think I'm gonna use kickstarter to raise funds for me,
so I don't have to work, and I can stay home and get all of the details for the convention all in line.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

How essential was the nude bit ?

Freshwater Surfin'

The Murray Basin
Australia

bigtikidude wrote:

I think I'm gonna use kickstarter to raise funds for me,
so I don't have to work, and I can stay home and get all of the details for the convention all in line.

Where do I send the money??? Wink

Bob

Restart post.
Q: Anyone care to share their experince with this program and those like it?
Q: what are the pros and cons of doing this kickstarter thing?
I will ask for your money later.

http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz

We have attempted to avoid using Kickstarter for our own projects. Although we are part of a Kickstarter funded comp that we were asked to be on.

There is a lot of good that comes from Kickstarter and other crowdfunding sites. But I have many reservations.

First, I fear oversaturation is going to lead to crowdfunding fatigue. I can honestly say that I get 5-10 requests to fund these things per week. There have been times where it was twice that. People are sure to get irritated at some point and lose interest in these all together.

Second, I see too many bands using them that, upon watching their career, seem to make no effort to make money as a unit and invest it back into their merch/recording/releases. This is fine for a hobby band. But when I see bands that are out on tour three times per year and touring regionally the rest of the year, I have to wonder what is up. Are they making no money? If so, where is the member with business sense?

Lastly, I am seening a growing trend of bands having crowds fund every aspect of their careers upfront. There might not be anything wrong with this, but it rubs me the wrong way. How can anyone ask for a crowd to fund their merch and then ask that said crowd to purchase the very same T-Shirts, Stickers, etc. at the shows that they still have to pay to get into?

I am not saying that we will NEVER do a crowd funding project. But at this point we have managed to record and release and EP, record our upcoming full-length, pay for T-Shirts, Stickers, travel, etc. entirely through the money we make at shows. The most any of us ever invested was about 100 bucks each at the begining of the band, outside of our individual gear purchases and such. Even more, we managed this as a band that, at best, can only tour every-other weekend and that playes multi-band shows exclusively...no, there are no 500-1000 dollar, 3-set nights for us. It can be done with hard work and a bit of business sense.

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

@killbabykill34 I share similar reservations with Kickstarter (as a musician and fan). A CD can be made and pressed for $1000-$1500 these days with great results. I'm more opt to helping a band/musician if I know they are investing in themselves (e.g. with gig money or day job money) - there's lots of backlash against record companies - but they too wanted to see you invest in yourself first before they invest into you.

There's a few full time musicians in my area who do the Kickstarter thing as well as throwing "house rent parties" - these rent parties are held at the musicians house, you pay a $10 cover charge to get in and can jam/listen to records, etc THEN the musician who rents the house keeps the cash to pay his rent. I don't know but that does not rub me right. BUT I guess it doesn't hurt to ask. While I'm not a support of a kickstarter project for every aspect (e.g. merch, cd, tour money, van money, etc) this was an interesting listen Amanda Palmer: The art of asking

I still believe that you need to invest in yourself first - though some are successful with kickstarter (e.g. established artists) - maybe I'm too old school to fully accept it Smile

Last edited: Mar 12, 2013 15:48:18

Yes, Amanda Palmer got into a bit of controversey with that. My friend Matt Owen was invited to perform with her on a few dates of her tour last year. Despite having a temendous amount of money to fund things with, she was opting to not pay the musicians in each town. Well, due to backlash she apparently payed everyone.

In regard to the 1000-1500 bucks to press a CD, for a completely independent band that investment is both risky and pointless. While many oldschool guys on here disagree with me on this, the many 'duplication' services out there, such as Kunaki, allow artists to do self-releases of any quantity for minimal investment. Don't go get 1000 copies of a CD pressed when you are a new band. Get fifty to start with and then order more when you sell out. Every store we have sought distribution has carried our initial EP, as it comes completely retail ready. Every radio station we have sought rotation in has accepted our product.

Despite being in this mess for about 25 years, I could honestly write a nice little book of the do's and don'ts that I have learned over just the past two and a half years in Kill,Baby...Kill! The industry has changed so much. What worked ten years ago doesn't work now. What was unacceptable ten years ago is now acceptable. It can be exhausting just keeping up with it all.

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

@killbabykill34 Thanks for the tip on Kuanki (I wasn't hip to them). I agree on the CD pressings, additionally with instant downloads (songs, graphics, etc) from an musicians website, physical copies are getting obsolete. I always had this thought that you can have a kisok (e.g. laptop) or something at a gig so fans can instantly download a song (e.g. from a computer or wifi connection) instead of purchasing a cd. (easier said then done)

Oh write the book, you can sell it at your merch table or make it downloadable Smile

Last edited: Mar 12, 2013 16:35:30

You can order as little as (1) copy of a CD from Kunaki. While the per unit price is more than doing a full run of replicated disks, the personal investment and risk is very low. And yes, outside of vinyl, physical sales have never been lower, so a risky investment has become all the more so.

Anyway, the first Kill,Baby...Kill! EP cost a grand total of $500 initial investment for us. That included the studio time and the initial order of 50 copies. We have made our investment back many times over at this point. With that in mind, we had been performing live for a grand total of 6 months at the point this EP was released. So essentially we were able to play enough shows in four and a half months to afford studio time, cd copies, etc. without paying out of pocket. All-the-while, we played, at best, four shows per month during that time and still managed to afford our own merch, transportation, etc. on what the band made.

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

I'm with you on this one KillBaby....If you can get $1 million bucks more power to you, but this is likely just a flavour of the month.
If you are smart and motivated you can press the right culture-buttons and folks will throw money at you. just call up the 20 most viral videos and meditate for a handful of hours on what society-of-the-moment values.
This stuff has not much to do with music or soul and lots to do with fashion. Focus on the spirit and you'll find immeasurable treasure.

http://blueruins.bandcamp.com

Last edited: Mar 12, 2013 17:34:48

"Focus on the spirit and you'll find immeasurable treasure."

Worship

http://www.reverbnation.com/thegreasemonkeyz

killbabykill34 wrote:

We have attempted to avoid using Kickstarter for our own projects. Although we are part of a Kickstarter funded comp that we were asked to be on.

Yeah, whatever happened to that comp anyway?

Monsters Of Surf
Daikaiju

Last I heard from the producer, via Kickstarter by email, a number of bands (not KBK!) had failed to deliver tracks and alternatives were being sought. This was a long time ago. I'm not holding my breath on this one.

I feel bad for anyone in the project who actually did send in a recording and promoted it to their friends. I don't blame them for anything.

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Last edited: Mar 27, 2013 08:12:05

The producer of the album sent out an update about two weeks ago, as he and many of us bands are starting to get less than happy messages. He has apparantly been finalizing the tracking and was intending on sending it off for mastering over the past few weeks.

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

Saw this thread "Why not more Kickstarter" and thought I'd throw in 2c

In the decade + I've been involved with the Indie film world around LA I've known many people who have used Kickstarter, some successful, others not, and have watched hundreds more. I've consulted with some of the best in the industry and they agree that the #1 key to a successful campaign is...

Have an active "community" in place (before beginning the campaign).

This is similar to the question "how do we make surf music bigger" which has arisen on this forum many times. I suggest use reverse engineering. Marketing 101 begins with 'identify your audience'. In this example, 'identify your community', the size of it, the money available within it, and the history of activism towards your 'cause'. Who are the leaders? Who are the strongest or most vocal advocates? Who would benefit from your 'project'? What are the concentrated points of contact?

The reason many projects are (oddly) successful is because there is a 'community' behind the cause who actively advocate the subject. When a project achieves a substantial funding it's mostly because there are people who 'believe' in the project and I would suggest if you look at the most successful projects who've raised a lot of cash it was because of this. That is the reason why many projects which achieve funding have something to do with ecology, human rights, the human spirit, etc...

If you could somehow frame "surf music" as a social issue, you would do best with fundraising.

Sound of the Surf, the movie
Facebook SOTS

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