Somebody posted that same article on the local craigslist last week. Very well written and on point.

METEOR IV on reverbnation

Last edited: Jan 25, 2012 20:00:10

The club owners are amateurs and the musicians are amateurs. Not really a great combination. They both make a little money, not a ton and everyone is pretty much unhappy, save for the patrons.

I think the problems is that calling these 'clubs' and 'venues' is a little far-reaching. Theses are bars with live music. They can't afford a full-time booking agent otherwise they wouldn't break even, the owner can't commit to booking because booking is a very time consuming gig, same with promoting. As a result, you get the situations we have in the bars with live music.

I don't think anybody is truly at fault. People are getting into situations that are above their means/their station/their ability.

Also at fault, is bands who play for really cheap. Established bands always want more money, but they don't really ever bring in a large crowd, so people give nothing to a small band with almost a comparable draw. When you are starting a band you have to take any gig you can get, so you really aren't at fault. Also, some people just love to play so you can't blame them for any sort of malicious act.

It is a messed up situation all around there are too many bars, too many bands, and not enough money to go around. That is what we are looking at.

And I'm going to let everyone in on the biggest issue, Everyday is not the weekend. Friday night and Saturday night, those slots go to bands that can draw, and they get paid well.
Evolution of my gigging:
1.) Play for cheap/free on weekdays at a variety of bars/minor clubs/weekend house shows
2.) Play for decent cash, small merch sales and a crowd at a small bar.
3.) Play for good cash, medium merch sales, and a crowd at a larger bar/club.
There was about a year between each step. And there were the festivals/car that we probably shouldn't have but we whored out anyways and got paid handsomely for(funded travel/album).

We never brought a big crowd with us. Step one was a friend or two, step two was 5-10 friend and family, step three was 20 or so friends/family/band acquaintances/internet fans. Most people don't want to come to more than one show a month, so it was a revolving cast of familiar faces. You really have to rely on the club/bar, and that all comes down to the quality of music that is played there on a yearly basis, atmosphere of the place, etc...

I played in a band in L.A. in the early '90s, and this was happening then also... word on the street was it started in the '70s with all the Van Halen copycat bands and the crowds who wanted to be a part of the "next big thing". I agree with Jake that it's about supply and demand- in L.A. there are probably 5,000 bands and 200 places for them to play (I'm sure the numbers are off, but you get the point). Of course there will be bands willing to play for free or even pay to play. Who is going to pay a band when there is a stack of demo CD's on the booking person's desk, all of whom would be happy just to get booked?

I agree that the band should get paid for providing entertainment.
And that the Venue should have their own people/following.

But that being said, I know bands that have fans that would go to see them,
if they knew they were playing. But they drop the ball on sending out the show info.
I don't know if its
1. being lazy,
2. being jaded, and expecting everyone else to get the word out.
3. Just not caring.

I think that it is mainly the job of the venue or show organizer to promote the show.
But it doesn't hurt for the band to take 1 min. to send out the info to a email or facebook friend list.

When I put on shows,
I send a e-mail to all of the bands,
with the the info for the show.
address, date, time,
cost, website for venue,
etc.
and ask them to send it out via
email,facebook,myspace,twitter, etc.
and I usually only get a email back from 10% or less of the bands.
admittedly I am not on facebook or myspace to see if it is there.
But I do have my spies.

I just tell the bands,
You get a piece of the pie of what comes in,
if you promote and bring in more people, you will make more money.
I take nothing or little(maybe recoup the cost of flyers)

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Last edited: Jan 25, 2012 22:09:44

JakeDobner wrote:

The club owners are amateurs and the musicians are
amateurs. Not really a great combination. They both
make a little money, not a ton and everyone is pretty
much unhappy, save for the patrons.

I think the problems is that calling these 'clubs' and
'venues' is a little far-reaching. Theses are bars with
live music. They can't afford a full-time booking agent
otherwise they wouldn't break even, the owner can't
commit to booking because booking is a very time
consuming gig, same with promoting. As a result, you
get the situations we have in the bars with live music.

I don't think anybody is truly at fault. People are
getting into situations that are above their
means/their station/their ability.

Also at fault, is bands who play for really cheap.
Established bands always want more money, but they
don't really ever bring in a large crowd, so people
give nothing to a small band with almost a comparable
draw. When you are starting a band you have to take any
gig you can get, so you really aren't at fault. Also,
some people just love to play so you can't blame them
for any sort of malicious act.

It is a messed up situation all around there are too
many bars, too many bands, and not enough money to go
around. That is what we are looking at.

And I'm going to let everyone in on the biggest issue,
Everyday is not the weekend. Friday night and Saturday
night, those slots go to bands that can draw, and they
get paid well.
Evolution of my gigging:
1.) Play for cheap/free on weekdays at a variety of
bars/minor clubs/weekend house shows
2.) Play for decent cash, small merch sales and a crowd
at a small bar.
3.) Play for good cash, medium merch sales, and a crowd
at a larger bar/club.
There was about a year between each step. And there
were the festivals/car that we probably shouldn't have
but we whored out anyways and got paid handsomely
for(funded travel/album).

We never brought a big crowd with us. Step one was a
friend or two, step two was 5-10 friend and family,
step three was 20 or so friends/family/band
acquaintances/internet fans. Most people don't want to
come to more than one show a month, so it was a
revolving cast of familiar faces. You really have to
rely on the club/bar, and that all comes down to the
quality of music that is played there on a yearly
basis, atmosphere of the place, etc...

Jake, your evolution of gigging pretty much nailed it. Well, it nailed it as far as original bands go. If there is one thing that I have learned in my time on this board, it is that being an original/touring band and being a cover/lounge band are two completely different worlds.

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

Back in the day, when I was working for a band, they never played the local clubs. The venues were either the large venues where the touring acts played, or dinky bars that didn't pay. And in this college town, there were a hundred bands that would play for free.

So they went a different route. They played a circuit of bowling alley bars, and one actual club down in Illinois. Why? Because it paid. The alley owners brought in bands that could play, and the towns were small enough that it was the going thing on the weekend nights.

When a local club pays $250 maximum, and the bowling alley pays $600, where are you going to play? And yeah, all the bands on that circuit were playing mostly covers, but if you're going to remain financially viable, that's what you did. They still recorded on the side and snuck a few into the live sets. They also got one original picked up by the university basketball team for their ads, and one song (co-written by me, my single claim to musical fame) hit the local radio rotation. Not bad for a part-time band.

From what I see (I still know people working locally), it hasn't changed much since the mid-80's when I was working for that band. And full disclaimer, I didn't play for them. I worked for them hauling still and running the lights.

If we could tour regionally I'd probably take that same tack.

Though we perform primarily locally, I think we're going to shoot for less shows with more being out of town this year (within 100 mile radius).

It's kind of tuff with fuel @ $3.50 a G though ?!

METEOR IV on reverbnation

Then again, many people don't understand the economics of playing original music. Average door price is 5 bucks. So if 100 people show up that is a 500 dollar door take. Then there are usually 3-4 bands that have to get paid off of that, on top of paying sound and door people in many venues. If the local bands are sympathetic to the idea of a touring band they will usually take a much smaller cut or none at all. However, this DIY mentality is becoming more and more rare.

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

Yes, I first discovered this article from a friend in Atlanta. This isn't an LA thing. This is an EVERYWHERE thing.

There are so many factors at play here, beyond what these two articles hit on. More than anything, we live in a time where there are entirely too many bands. Most of them are not good and most couldn't be convinced of such if they did a 100 night tour playing to zero people each night. None-the-less, venues don't have to compete for live entertainment anymore, as most are bombarded with hundreds of emails each week from bands wanting to play.

As far as their decision to not advertise, it is unwise on both the part of a venue or a band. While oldschool techniques such as fliers don't have the effect they used to, the internet is one of the greatest marketing tools in history. Unfortunantly, in order to utilize this tool one has to have a lot of time on their hands.

What I found most sad about this article was the constant mention of bands 'bringing out their friends'. Yes, it is nice to have supportive friends. But, isn't the goal to build a fan base outside of your circle of friends?

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

killbabykill34 wrote:

What I found most sad about this article was the
constant mention of bands 'bringing out their friends'.
Yes, it is nice to have supportive friends. But, isn't
the goal to build a fan base outside of your circle of
friends?

Yeah, I saw that, too.Kinda surpirsed the author didn't say something like "I'll hire you to pur wine, but you have to bring the people who will drink it".

Heck, there was a tme when I could 'bring out my frineds' just by telling them what bar I was going to. Didn't have to play music at all.

But I can see both sides, I suppose. For the band, they want to play somehwere where people go, so they get paid. For the venue, they want bands that people want to see, so people come. So it would seem that an established club with a steady clientele would discontinue to book a band if their clientele stopped showing for a particular band. And a band would stop playing somewhere if no one showed up.

Then again, maybe people just aren't going out as much. Live music and booze are pretty much intertwined for certain styles of music and venues. Drunk driving isn't a hobby like it used to be...