Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 10:42 AM
Hi all,
Continuing my 'looking for cab' saga (previous chapter HERE), I decided, like Ran (Kick_the_Reverb) suggested me, to get the real thing.
I want to build me a matching cabinet for my '65 Showmnan. I'm dying to hear it in all it's glory, and I'm an inch from desperation...
Since there's nothing locally anyway, not even a decent 2*12 cab without need of speaker replacement, I set my mind to doing it myself, ordering the parts, and hope for the best. I want the sound, no compromises, and I've come to realize that I have to work for it, no ready solution for me. I have no experience building cabs, but I do have good hands, tools and patience. I also read everything on this site concerning this, but I do need some extra help from you guys.
So, here's a shopping list I gathered. I'm hot on closing an order from Weber even today, so it's final decision time for me.
Please everyone, or anybody who's ever build a cab, if you can review it, comment on it, and tell me if something's wrong or missing.
(BTW my amp is 8ohm.)
-1. Weber Ceramic Chicago 15" - $115
As I understand the Chicago has a little earlier breakup than the Cali or Neomag, and that's good with me. Also in this comparison Scotstandard has made, the Weber that 'won' (to my ears as well) against the JBL was the Chicago after all, not the Cali. I like it. Any reason not to get it? I'm hot on the trigger...
-2. Accessories from Weber:
a. Handle, black plastic strap (blackface-style)
b. Black rubber foot for cabinets x4
c. Chrome 2-leg cabinet corner x8
d. Jack cup, with 3 mounting screws
-3. Tolex and Grillcloth, I'll try to locate locally, but if someone knows a good source for gold Grillcloth, or Blonde Tolex, please do share.
-4. Tone-Ring. Now that's a biggie. I found only one place online that sells them: thevintagesound, $100 bucks!
Does anybody here have one for sale? Or access to another option? How about going to a blacksmith and making it custom?
I guess it'll sound nice even w/o the ring setup, if I don't find a reasonable solution, but if I'm doing it anyway, why not go all the way...
-5. Wood. What kind would you recommend? I don't care for weight, I want it sturdy and to sound good. What Thickness would you recommend? And for the baffle board(s)?
-6. Insulation? 
-7. what else does a man need to make a cab?
Any construction tips? Type of bracing/joints, screws, beveling, gluing, whatnot...
As for construction, if anyone wants to share with me the plans/dimensions for the original Showman cab (or close to it), that would be wonderful. I promise to keep it to myself.
I know it's a huge subject, but any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Help a sufferer surfing bro out 
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dboomer
Joined: Jan 05, 2009
Posts: 262
Port Hueneme, CA
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 12:00 PM
The tone ring is basically a tuning port. Tuning the port will greatly affect the low end of the cabinet and needs to be individualized to the specific drivers(speakers) you install. It is not a one size fits all situation.
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Emilien03
Joined: Jul 16, 2008
Posts: 1368
Coyoacán, Distrito Federal
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 12:16 PM
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RobinsonCrusoe
Joined: Aug 08, 2009
Posts: 49
Saarbruecken Germany
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 12:34 PM
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Sonichris
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 1892
Wear gloves - I'm in the Rockies
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 12:53 PM
The guy on ebay with the plans is the guy that builds/built Gomez's cabinets. His plans are spot on - totally vintage specs. I think they even come with some helpful tips on tolex and grill cloth installation. I know I've referenced those plans quite a bit, and recommend them if you can get them.
Mojotone is the only place that I know of that has gold sparkle grill cloth. They also sell tolex, handles, corners, etc. I noticed the corners you have listed from Weber aren't exactly the same as the Fender ones. It looks like they are out of 15" tonerings, however. they have been for quite a while.
here's some pics from ebay listings of Tone Ring baffles, and cabinets. hopefully they are helpful.
image
image
image
image
image
— "You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"
Last edited: Dec 22, 2011 12:56:15
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Sonichris
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 1892
Wear gloves - I'm in the Rockies
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 01:05 PM
Wood - 3/4" plywood or pine for the actual cabinet. I've built cabinets with plywood, and pine. I like the pine builds better myself, just because the 13 ply plywood I used is really quite heavy, and harder to cut/join, work with with in general.
1/2" plywood or particle board for the front and rear baffle. I like plywood better for the front baffle, don't have much of an opinion on the rear. either works just fine. The earliest Fender cabinets were all plywood fronts and rears, then plywood front, particle rear, then particle for both.
Here's a link to some cabinets I built a couple years ago. matching cabinets
— "You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"
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beaverbottoms
Joined: Nov 08, 2011
Posts: 86
Chicagoland
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 01:29 PM
Ariel
I can sell you a 12" or 15" tone ring
The correct corners & glides for the cabinet
Mojo is the only source right now for the Gold Sparkle grille cloth
He might also be the best source for the smooth blonde tolex once you factor in the shipping costs.
I can also answer any questions about dimensions or construction of your tone-ring cabinet
Bob
www.beaverbottoms.com
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 02:02 PM
Wow, thanks for all the replies, I knew you'd help a guy stuck at the beach with no board!
dboomer - Appreciate your insight. Probably you're right that the port need to be tuned to the speaker (and the desired result). I guess meanwhile I'll start with the original specs and take it from there.
Emilien/Julio - Thanks! Great find. BTW You know, I was born in Mexico City (actually got a nationality), lived there for a year 10 years ago, and miss it a whole lot. Beautiful Mexico, my love.
RobinsonCrusoe - Thanks man, saw that one. Sadly they've been out of stock for quite some time.
Sonichris - So the plans are Dario's? Why didn't anyone say so  (well you just did), Great! Gonna order from him pronto. Thanks so much for the other useful info and pics as well, I sure gonna use it.
On the Mojotone site - which are the correct corners then: these, these, or these?
Those cabs you built look amazing.
Bob - I'll contact you via email, thanks for chiming in.
Anything else that I missed?
What about the speaker, any love for the Chicago? (obviously, the samples and youtube don't tell me much about real life usage, but I trust the collective wisdom here).
Great help so far! Thank you people. 
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D22
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 2054
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 02:30 PM
No, the plans are not mine. They are by Paul Wisenor. He is on eBay and you can also contact him directly at paulwisenor@hotmail.com.
Dario
—
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beaverbottoms
Joined: Nov 08, 2011
Posts: 86
Chicagoland
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 02:40 PM
You might want to check with "Chadillac" he installed a Jensen Neo 15" in his tone-ring cabinet, to save some weight.
To build it according to plans you will need a table saw or a router with a jig to make the box joints properly. Or you will have to figure out a different corner joint.
The cabinet is 36" wide x 24 1/2" tall by 11 1/2" I do not know the metric conversions. They did sell a 1-12 tone ring cabinet with a showman head also. 30"x 20"x 11 1/2"
3/4" pine boards are used to build the shell, with 1/2 plywood for he dual baffle & the back.
You will need 1 yard of grille cloth and 2 yards of tolex just for the tone ring cabinet, if you plan on doing the head over order an additional yard for that.
I have all the correct corners, handles, jack cups, amp hold downs, tilt-back legs & glides you will need.
Yes the insulation will make difference in the sound of the cabinet.
I have plenty of photos of tone ring cabinets in the building stages, for you to see.
Bob
www.beaverbottoms.com
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 04:25 PM
Thanks Dario and Bob, I appreciate it.
BTW, Chris, I love your signature. This is truth.
Any more opinions regarding the speaker?
What's the difference sonically between the Chicago and the Jensen Neo 15"?
I'm looking for a warm, round sound, with some grit in it. The amp screams anyway...
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11050
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 08:14 PM
I put a Jensen Neo in my tone ring cab that I built. I did not like it and took it out to sell and put in an EV. Frankly, I'm much happier with my 2x12 than my 1x15 tonering, they both have EV's in them. You might want to save the money and trouble and just build a 2x12 simple cab.
You should be able to find a local woodshop to knock together a decent cab box and cut a baffle. I'm partial to box (finger) joints on the corners.
Good luck.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2775
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Dec 22 2011 09:10 PM
Check with Larry at Rogers Amplifiers in Naples FL. I have gotten a lot of the parts for my project cabinets from Larry. He always has the RIGHT hardware including nickel plated corners as opposed to chrome plated ones if you are a real snob.
I may have some gold sparkle grill cloth left over. I'll go look................ I have two yards of the Fender gold grill cloth but It doesn't have the sparkle threads in it. I believe it is 52" wide.
I have built maybe 100 cabinets since 1963 and never lock jointed the first one. In recent years I've used lightweight "sandply" plywood which is soft like pine. It builds a nice cabinet with moderate weight and they sound good. I use West System epoxy and an air nailer. The real trick is to cut your front and rear baffles out so that they just barely slide into the cabinet and hold it square while the glue dries. If you want a brighter sounding cabinet after the build, put several coats of epoxy on all the interior surfaces. Use a router to round all the edges and corners then work all the edges with 36 grit sandpaper on a 2'long 2x4 to straighten all the edges and overlaps prior to putting on the tolex.
Building cabinets is big time fun. I built racing boats for 40 years so playing with plywood is second nature to the Katcher kid here.
Yes Sonichris, I have built boats in the boatwerx...........a hell of a lot of them.
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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kick_the_reverb
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1335
Escondido, CA
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Posted on Dec 23 2011 12:34 AM
Hi Ariel,
Looks like you got some good advice and sources.
Some notes, to clear up the situation over there with "local builders":
(This was the situation around 10 years ago, not sure what it is today)
NO ONE had the finger joint jig, they were aware of it, referred to it as anicent un-necessary and refused to even consider it.
A dedicated speaker cabinet builder refused to use anything else but Birch Plywood, and refused to finish it with anything else but carpet and metal grill.
Pine is availabe from wood supply stores, birch plywood might be tougher, but still doable. If you go "fiber board" for anything, get MDF not "Sibit".
Use T-nuts and bolts to mount speaker/tone ring to wood as opposed to screws.
Maybe it's possible for a US builder to send you the wooden parts already cut (and packed well) and you can assemble and finish it?
As for speaker choice, I don't know what to tell you. Probably not much help. For me in the past it was a no brainer. I wanted as close to the real thing as I could get. Dick Dale's tone was with JBL D series speakers. They do tend to be harsh at times with the aluminum dust cap especially with reverb. Speakers are expensive and heavy to ship, so you don't have the luxury of trying them yourself. That video of the Chicago VS D130 shows the Chicago could sound good. But if the D130 is all original, who knows, maybe it is past its prime.
Good luck
Ran
— The Scimitars
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Dec 23 2011 04:29 AM
I'm so excited about this.
I love DUY, and hopefully will be proud of my creation.
Danny - Thanks for your thoughts, this is a very down-to-earth advice. I almost bought a Fender Bandmaster VM cab, it's the only thing I can get locally that's close to my needs (Surf needs!), but the speakers in it are kinda trashy. And it's not blonde  (yeah, I'm a Potz). Building a custom cab here will cost the same either way, so I'd rather go with a dreamy 15"er. I never know what would works best for me until I hear it of course, but I rather try than not try. Otherwise it will always bug me "...what if..." Thanks for the ideas.
Eddie - I'm not a real snob yet, but working on it
Thanks a lot for the great tips, you just raised my enthusiasm quite a bit. I surely will consult you further. Thank you.
Ran - Indeed, this is awesome, I got my head full from all the advice. Like you said, every local builder here is taking the easy way out. No one 'gets' it, they're all trying to make you a Peavey.  As for tone-ring baffles? Forget it, that's "very complicated and expensive. You're crazy". Screw this, I'm gonna make it myself.
Pine ('Oren', right?) is indeed popular here, so yeah, I might go with that.
Also checking the option to have the cut parts sent to me, but that will raise the shipping cost quite a bit.
Why the T-nuts? for easy mounting on and off?
As for the speaker, I want the opposite of harsh, meanwhile the Chicago seems most applicable to me, but I'm not sure.
Thanks a lot man, you did inspire me to go all the way.
Appreciate all the answers guys, this is a real community help. You all rule!
Happy Hanukka!
Last edited: Dec 23, 2011 04:50:52
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kick_the_reverb
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1335
Escondido, CA
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Posted on Dec 26 2011 01:41 PM
Ariel,
The Pine is available. but you need to make sure the pieces you get are good, plus there might be a few types? Finnish Pine? Not sure which is the right Pine to use. Yes, Pine=Oren.
The T-Nuts enable you to take it off and put it on several times. You will probably need that when you are perfecting your cab or in the future when you replace speakers. If you use screws, there's more chance of the wood getting chewed up. If you use MDF, then it's even more important. Just verifying that you know what T-Nuts are, they are the kind that have 3 little teeth that bite into the wood, and then they are there for good. Then you use bolts that fit in them, instead of just screws straight into wood.
I still think that getting the bare wood parts pre-cut sent from someone who builds good cabinets will be the best compromise. It will still be fun to build and finish, and you will not have to deal with as many variables.
Ran
— The Scimitars
Last edited: Dec 26, 2011 13:42:35
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Ariel
Joined: Aug 29, 2009
Posts: 1556
Israel
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Posted on Dec 26 2011 04:38 PM
Hi Ran,
Appreciate your good advice.
I like the T-nuts idea a lot, indeed it seems like the right way to go.
(Even though I had some trouble with them before, with some chair I was trying to fix, the T-nuts just exploded the crappy plywood material while trying to hammer them in, but with new straight wood I might have better luck.)
Bob (Beaverbottoms) already helped me a great deal with lots of info on what I need (thanks Bob), I'm waiting for a price offer from him on the pre-cut wood including shipping (I hope customs here are cool about it), and then I'll compare it to purchasing locally. Since he has the tone-ring, and already proved his professionalism and good will, I'd rather have everything directly from him (expect the grill and Tolex from Mojo).
If I do get the wood locally after all, I'll make sure it's strong and clean (uniform). Not planning on MDF, only natural and/or plywood. I don't have the tools to make the finger joint, so I'll have to resort to some other joining method.
I already ordered the plans form Dario's builder, Paul. Should be a couple of days.
Haven't ordered the speaker yet, still looking for more opinions on the matter. I don't want it super clean, just mostly clean. In addition to Surf, I like to overdrive and fuzz.
So, I'll have a better idea on where I stand in about a week.
Meanwhile, the amp's just sitting here... I'm so tempted to get that 2*12 VM cab right away, since the dream cab is gonna take some time, until all the parts get here, and until I build it... A real test of my patience. (My neighbors don't know they're on extended borrowed time...)
Will keep updating of course, as things progress.
Thanks.
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11050
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Dec 26 2011 05:47 PM
I'm partial to these:
http://www.mojotone.com/amp-parts/amplifier-Screws/Speaker-Mounting-Screw-w-Wood-Machine-Thread-w-lock-nut
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2775
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Dec 26 2011 10:10 PM
I always use t-nuts and I glue them in on the back side with epoxy. Then I run a tap through each one to ensure that the threads are clean and that I'll have no issue when mounting the speaker. Danny's pix is almost what Fender used and is super but I have seen a lot of speakers damaged while trying to position a speaker down in a tight cabinet. Done it myself too, damnit. Clumsy bloke that Katcher at times. Make sure you put a good coat of flat black paint on the front side of the speaker baffle to give the grill cloth a uniform appearance. I put a dab of flat black paint on the ends of all the screws as well.
If you go with t-nuts, start each one by hand and don't tighten any until all eight mounting screws are treading smoothly into the t-nuts. Then use a skip pattern back and forth across the speaker to snug them all up and then just a bit extra to cinch them down. You can warp the frame if you get ham-fisted. Building cabinets, glueing on tolex, mounting grill cloth and speakers is all about finesse. Take your time.
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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cambeezy
Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 399
Cleveland, Ohio
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Posted on Dec 27 2011 08:29 AM
Also, T-nuts are great for holding the pan on a vertical plane -- specially if you do a lot of pan swapping 
edited to say: oops, back to talking about cab building.
Last edited: Dec 27, 2011 08:35:20
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