JONPAUL
Joined: Apr 29, 2010
Posts: 2472
Venice, CA
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 03:03 PM
So....there's a question/issue that's been weighing heavily on my mind ever since this year's convention, and I thought it might be a good idea to put it out there on the table for discussion.
As wel all know, Colt Surf displayed superhuman generosity by donating an exceptional Ocean Turqoise AVRI Jazzmaster for 2011's big raffle prize. This was not just some backup instrument, it was a true thing of beauty with extra special features including a Nitrocellulose Lacquer, a Mastery bridge, a real bone nut, a bent tremolo arm and tolex hard case. Everyone that played this guitar instantly coveted it, and it was used by many throughout this year's live performances. It's value--economic, historic and emotional--were undeniable.
Now, here's the bothersome part. The individual that won the guitar does not play, had no intentions of learning and immediately turned around and sold it. OK, in any kind of raffle situation, there's no way to control who wins or what happens to the prize. This is understood. However, the guitar's winner had repeated discussions with many active members of the Surf Community who offered to purchase it on the spot, give it an extremely appreciated new home and career, complete with plans of recording, touring and live performances guaranteed in it's future. I recall the phrase "keeping it in the community" being uttered throughout many of these conversations. What makes the situation even more despicable is that the winner didn't even bother to sell it for it's worth but just accepted a lowball offer from a local music store.
So, what say ye surf fanatics? Should any thought of this issue simply be dropped and chalked up to "that's just the risk any raffle runs?"
Or, should we share our frustration and disappointment that a so-called "friend" of the community so blatantly disregarded said community and disrespected a very special instrument?
Incidentally, I can't verify that it's still available, but if anyone's interested, the guitar was sold to Timewarp Music in Mar Vista: 12257 Venice Blvd. (near Centinela) (323)600-5050. Unfortunately, they're known for their high prices, but maybe there's still a chance to keep it "in the community?"
— Insect Surfers
The Tikiyaki Orchestra
The Scimitars
Lords Of Atlantis
Fiberglass Jungle - Surf Radio
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 03:21 PM
That sucks... That is the risk of a raffle, unfortunately. If people who had no interest in the item didn't buy raffle tickets then that probably wouldn't have been worse, economically.
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bodysnatcher1
Joined: Mar 16, 2010
Posts: 215
Norwalk Ca
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 03:24 PM
No doubt it would have been amazing to see a player win the guitar. If I had won it, there's no way in hell for all the money in the world I would ever get rid of that guitar. I'm not a religious guy, but for me to win an instrument like that by chance has to be for some divine reason. I could see if maybe I was struggling for money living in the street, but no, not even then.
On the other hand, that's how the raffle went and those were the rules, and the winner can do with it as he pleases. No matter how many players fell in love with it, or how kind the act was to donate it in the first place, it went to someone who very distastefully put a dollar value on it. Maybe someone with a few grand will be able to rescue it, which defeats the point of the raffle, but whatever.
Knowing all this happened, I think I hear the entire surf community let out a collective groan. And rightfully so, it sucks.
— http://reverbnation.com/Bodysnatchers
http://facebook.com/TheBodysnatchers
http://myspace.com/TheBodysnatchers1
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bigtikidude
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 25689
Anaheim(So.Cal.)U.S.A.
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 03:28 PM
Sigh!
:-/
— Jeff(bigtikidude)
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CaptainSensible
Joined: Nov 08, 2006
Posts: 650
Leesburg, VA
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 03:28 PM
Do you know that the buyer was not "in the community?" In any event, I agree with Jake (perhaps for the second time ever :-)). The purpose of a raffle is to raise funds. To the extent you put restrictions on the raffle such that you reduce the demand for raffle tickets, you undermine the very purpose of the raffle in the first place. Also, if members "of the community" coveted it so much, they should have increased their odds of winning by purchasing more raffle tickets.
— Sean
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 03:40 PM
CaptainSensible wrote:
Do you know that the buyer was not "in the community?"
In any event, I agree with Jake (perhaps for the second
time ever :-)). The purpose of a raffle is to raise
funds. To the extent you put restrictions on the
raffle such that you reduce the demand for raffle
tickets, you undermine the very purpose of the raffle
in the first place. Also, if members "of the
community" coveted it so much, they should have
increased their odds of winning by purchasing more
raffle tickets.
It's the third time we've ever agreed! And the fourth will be you agreeing that it is the third time we've agreed. And the fifth time will be agreeing that it is the fourth time, and so on. Infinite regression.
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RobbieReverb
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2388
San Jose, Ca.
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 03:43 PM
To say that this situation was EXTREMELY disappointing is an understatement, but I dunno if there is a solution. If I recall correctly, the same thing happened at the Eddie Bertrand Benefit.
To me it was worse that the SG101 guitar raffle didn't come close to generating a sum approaching what the guitar was worth, than who won it.
ARRRRRRGH!!!!!!
Bob
— Bob
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josheboy
Joined: Mar 13, 2009
Posts: 2367
Twin Cities, MN
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 03:52 PM
Whats even worse is that my ticket was 1 number after his. ONE FREAKING NUMBER! I wanted to cry 
I wish the winner would've sold it to one of the dozen or so members that went up to him making him reasonable offers. But... dems da breaks...
Or as my momma always says: Douche is as douche does.
Last edited: Sep 08, 2011 15:53:37
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SpaceFargo
Joined: Feb 18, 2010
Posts: 260
Lake Forest, CA
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 04:12 PM
RobbieReverb wrote:
To say that this situation was EXTREMELY disappointing
is an understatement, but I dunno if there is a
solution. If I recall correctly, the same thing
happened at the Eddie Bertrand Benefit.
I actually met the woman who won the Jagmaster at a show a few months after the Eddie benefit. She said that she didn't play the guitar but was excited to learn on it. Dunno what happened since, but that's what I was told however long ago that was.
— Hot Summer Comes Again!
Let's Go Beach! Let's Go Beach!
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RobbieReverb
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2388
San Jose, Ca.
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 04:14 PM
SpaceFargo wrote:
RobbieReverb wrote:
To say that this situation was EXTREMELY
disappointing
is an understatement, but I dunno if there is a
solution. If I recall correctly, the same thing
happened at the Eddie Bertrand Benefit.
I actually met the woman who won the Jagmaster at a
show a few months after the Eddie benefit. She said
that she didn't play the guitar but was excited to
learn on it. Dunno what happened since, but that's what
I was told however long ago that was.
If she kept it and learned to play, that would be an AWESOME outcome. I hope that she did.
Bob
— Bob
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elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 04:14 PM
RobbieReverb wrote:
To say that this situation was EXTREMELY disappointing
is an understatement, but I dunno if there is a
solution. If I recall correctly, the same thing
happened at the Eddie Bertrand Benefit.
To me it was worse that the SG101 guitar raffle didn't
come close to generating a sum approaching what the
guitar was worth, than who won it.
ARRRRRRGH!!!!!!
Bob
Bingo Bob! Very disappointing. Hey, I know times is tough, but even though I'm a Certified Jazzmaster Hater, I donated to the cause. The pedals that were donated had a value of $600+, and I'm sure they didn't generate that much. Kudos to Colt Surf for his generosity, Jeff for his persistence, and Jon Paul starting the thread.
Good news-look at where winning the guitar last year has taken Trey's son!
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josheboy
Joined: Mar 13, 2009
Posts: 2367
Twin Cities, MN
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 04:17 PM
elreydlp wrote:
Good news-look at where winning the guitar last year
has taken Trey's son!
Very true. That one definitely went to a good cause! Corrupting the next generation with REVERB ADDICTION!!!! muahahahaha
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WhorehayRFB
Joined: Jun 12, 2008
Posts: 3331
Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 05:05 PM
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CousinMary
Joined: Nov 16, 2009
Posts: 1076
San Francisco Bay Area
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 05:09 PM
My opinion is that the raffle winner can do whatever with the prize, sell it to whomever they want.
I'm disappointed to hear about this, but the object of the raffle was to raise money. It's gravy if the prize is actually used and loved by the winner.
My two cents. Mary
PS
On the other hand, I attend meetings for a Final Cut Pro (video editing software) user group in San Francisco. There are a lot of raffle prizes (usually not worth too much, but sometimes a lot) that are donated by vendors. The organizers emphasize that if the winner cannot use them, to please turn them down or donate them to someone who can, that selling them would be considered very poor form.
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Tuck
Joined: Sep 02, 2006
Posts: 3166
Denver, CO
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 05:11 PM
The winner talked to me a little about winning it and I admit some of what he said kind of saddened me, too, though not all of it. He was delighted enough to have won it, though not quite in the way I expected. I hadn't heard how it came out. Some of my feelings might have been colored by the fact that it was a beautiful guitar (even in a color I happen to really like) and I had made a pretty good faith effort to win it for myself. But I admit that if I had won it that might have been a bit sad from any rational point of view, too.
So, maybe let's try to keep track of the instrument and what it accomplishes? I have a feeling it was meant to do something good (beyond what it's done so far). Maybe not spectacular, but good. Pity it didn't have a message engraved on it somewhere about posting something to SG101 if you came into possession of it. Or having to play something on it at a future SG101 convention. Sort of a message in a guitar.
So now Jonpaul has to appear out of the shadows of evening and deliver the message to each new owner in turn. I think I hear the new surf anthem Everybody Up in the background and Jonpaul has his hair styled the way Schmidt commended so highly. He ambles up to the stunned new owner and says "I am the ghost of surfing present and me and the Forum think you should know something about that guitar ..."
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mom_surfing
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 5321
the outer banks of north carolina
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 05:26 PM
i was among the collective groan, but what happened, happened.
years ago we donated a custom surfboard, built by my husband, to a local raffle. the person who won it didn't surf and came in asking if we wanted to buy it back from him. 
— www.surfintheeye.com
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ColtsSurf
Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 477
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 07:24 PM
Jon Paul, thanks for the kind comments.
The basic purpose of the donation was to raise money to help pay the bands and you all did that. There will be other guitars. Hopefully, a player wins the next one.
Really glad to hear about Trey's son!
— Paul
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LHR
Joined: Aug 23, 2006
Posts: 2123
The jungle
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 08:19 PM
It is my understanding that a Tiki Central guy won the guitar, right? Hmmm...
I may be in a unique position to render an opinion here. First, I have raffled off several guitars. One in particular was a tiki-themed NAMM one-off with art laminated on the top done by a cool guy named Doug Horne. We also included the original artwork used, which had become the property of FMIC, and the artist was on hand to sign whatever the winner wanted and pose for photos, etc. Anyhow, it was a quite a package. The winner was a fellow who did not play guitar and bought a single ticket, to boot. I was a tad stunned. But, what can you do?
Also, last year, my son essentially swiped a $120 from my wife and I to buy raffle tickets at the convention. He originally said he wanted $20 worth, which seemed fine with me. He won the guitar at the raffle. It was a badass G&L custom shop kind of SC-2, also donated by the amazingly kind ColtsSurf. I felt weird because there were a lot of great players there, avid fans, while he was 13 and was a novice at best and not totally sure he would even play guitar at that point (he leaned toward drums.) I also felt a bit strange because my band played the show and the raffle money want to the bands. A slight conflict of interest, possibly, for sure.
Anyway, he not only chose to play the guitar as a result of that but I'll be damned, he is actually pretty good! In some ways, he is better than I am and seems to have a natural talent. He is definitely better than I was at his age. He played at Don's this year. I was proud dad.
The dude who won the art guitar that I mentioned first, sold it immediately on eBay. And then he sold the art separately also for a pittance.
What I am trying to say is: you never know. The first scenario seemed okay but did not end ideally. The second seemed not so great at first but ended just fine. You simply take your chances with these things.
— SSIV
Last edited: Sep 08, 2011 21:04:45
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11076
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 09:02 PM
I too had a conversation with the winner, several times in fact. He indicated that he was going to sell it and I encouraged him to consider donating the money to charity, and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that's what he did.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I am now playing trumpet with Prince Buster tribute band 'Balzac'
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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Rio
Joined: May 22, 2006
Posts: 500
Hamilton, Ontario
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Posted on Sep 08 2011 10:12 PM
I also heard some understandable expressions of disappointment that the raffle was won by a non-player, and it's too bad that the guitar got sold to a store rather than someone who might appreciate it more.
On the other hand, as others have said, if you're raffling a guitar, it's just the luck of the draw as to who wins it, and if the objective is to raise money, than you want to sell as many tickets as possible to as many people as possible, and not be selective.
Now on the other hand, if there were a way to make money and at the same time ensure that the guitar went to one of the members of the bands performing, there'd be no doubt at that point that the guitar would go to a good home... but how can you do that and still raise money?
Is there some kind of contest that could be run, that would still generate money, but where at least one of the prizes would be a special guitar for one of the band members?
I dunno...
— http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/rockinrio.delrosa
http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/TheHighTides
http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/pages/The-Blue-Demons
Last edited: Sep 08, 2011 22:13:00
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