Very interesting.
This is where the confusion comes into play with Surf music.
There's a huge difference between a Surf band and an instrumental band. Keep in mind, just because a band might play all instrumentals, play Fender guitars, and play thru Reverb tanks doesn't make them a Surf band. It's the "Music" they play that determines them a Surf band.
Example:

When I say Surf bands, think bands like Eliminators, Outerwave, Take-Offs, Detonators, Kelp, Torquays, Surf Kings, etc.

Bands like the Mermen, Insect Surfers, Ghastly Ones, etc., would you really call them a Surf band?
Great bands, but I wouldn't label them a Surf band.

Organs, keyboards, etc. may work quite nice in some of those bands, but in Surf, I think it needs to stay at a minimum.
It's just an opinion. Thanks for the feedback.
Billy, (I promise to donate my organs when I die)

Be careful following the masses. Sometimes the "M" is silent...........................

I think Billy just summed up, indirectly, why I don't like surf music much at the moment. It all sounds the same if you deviate at all you are no longer a surf band. It is ridiculous. Can't use a certain scale or key because it isn't surf enough or that amp is overdriving too much. It is a bunch of people trying to recreate this one sound from the 60s with no new musical growth while rewriting the history of what surf could be in the first wave all while completely lacking the grit and emotion these kids felt while they built a genre.

skeeter
This is kind of a surf band with keyboards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW74LBz9W-s

And the keys are one of the lead instrument in that song.

Dick plays piano in the original recording of Miserlou, that's pretty much a surf song.

Paul
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BillyBlastOff
When I say Surf bands, think bands like Eliminators, Outerwave, Take-Offs, Detonators, Kelp, Torquays, Surf Kings, etc.

Bands like the Mermen, Insect Surfers, Ghastly Ones, etc., would you really call them a Surf band?
Great bands, but I wouldn't label them a Surf band.

That's interesting cause I would have put the Surf Kings and Kelp in your second list. I'd label them all as more or less surf bands, but this is pretty subjective. Different shades of surf to be sure, but they all are comfortable under the banner at various points.

Other than Pipeline and Shockwave, I can't think of too many classic surf songs that had keyboard or organ. There were lots of songs with plinky rock-n-roll style piano though.

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skeeter
Dick plays piano in the original recording of Miserlou, that's pretty much a surf song.

That wasn't Dick - it was Jan Davis (the original performer of "The Fugitive") and his keyboard-playing partner Bob Roberts. From the interview with Davis from Pipeline 60 (Summer 2003):

"Jan's other brush with fame came with Dick Dale's Miserlou. 'What happened was that Dick's dad James Monsour came into Rendezvous with this track his son had recorded' reported Jan. 'At the time Rendezvous was handling distribution for Dick's Del-Tone label and so we listened to the track and it was interesting but dead sounding. Rod Pierce said for me and Bob to take the track into the studio and liven it up with some overdubs. So we added all the shouts and handclaps, some extra rhythm guitar and Bob on piano. I think we ran it back and forth through our old Ampex mono recorders about six times adding this or that. When we finished it really cooked. To this day Dick has never acknowledged or thanked me for the work we put in on Miserlou. Now, of course, thanks to Pulp Fiction, that track is all over America on adverts for Domino's Pizza, Mazda cars - just all over the place.'"

Ivan
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Brian
Other than Pipeline and Shockwave, I can't think of too many classic surf songs that had keyboard or organ. There were lots of songs with plinky rock-n-roll style piano though.

Well, there were the Avengers VI - just remember "Time Bomb"! And of course, several of the Ventures' most surfy-sounding songs had an electric organ, stuff like "WDR '64" and "Diamond Head."

Why are people getting so worked up here? Billy said that he hates keyboards - clearly he was trying to stir the pot a bit, but hey, it's his taste and it's subjective. That's what he likes, good for him. But ultimately, who cares??

As far as what's surf and what isn't, I think Jake is completely off his rocker. Today there's at least as much if not more tolerance for diversity in the genre as at any other time. There are so many bands doing such creative things, just look at all the praise that the Barbwires and Los Twang! Marvels have received around here for the past year - and those bands are certainly not just doing the same old thing. Or the Madeira, for that matter. So what if there are some people that are dyed-in-the-wool traditionalists and quite vocal about it? The fact is that there's a considerable audience out there than appreciates a creative approach to the genre. I mean, if you ask Klas, I'll bet you anything that he'll tell you that there are definitely not enough surf fans out there that fully appreciate sixties surf and the beauty of a purist trad approach, and that from his perspective there's way too much 'progressive' stuff going on. My take is that people are happy to listen to something if it's good - that's what matters. So, let's not blame the listeners and fans for any perceived shortfalls of the genre.

PS DP, have you ever listened to the Surftones from Finland? They had a couple of interesting CDs in the late '90s. Their debut "Expose Yourself to Surfers" featured a relatively trad approach - with an analog synth making all sorts of noises on top! I really like that CD, though their second one was not nearly as good.

Ivan
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Ivan, I perhaps misconmunicated my point. I wasntrying to define or narrow the genre. I've actually developed a very broad definition of surf lately. In my post, I was just saying I'm really put off by the trad Nazi bands and fans withe the closed minds. When I say I am put off by surf I mean the genre as a whole, not the actual music inside of it.

zak
What Jake is really saying is that sax doesn't belong in surf.

Now, I can agree with that...sax TOTALLY sucks!
Well, except for Joel Willenbring of the Lively Ones...he totally blows!

Yeah I knew as soon as I said that people would jump in to remind me of a few songs. Yes, Time Bomb, of course! How could I forget that one.

I agree with Zak that things got real interesting for keyboards right when surf tailed off and garage started coming in. The Avengers IV and the song "Shockwave" by Zorba and The Greeks ('66) come to my mind.

So yeah, Billy doesn't like them, no biggie, it's all subjective, but he did start what turned out to be an interesting thread.

Speaking of organs, I can't wait to hear the new Treblemakers record! Something tells me it is going to be filled with crushing organ madness!

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