AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 27 2023 03:11 AM
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BB_Bunny
Joined: Sep 13, 2020
Posts: 182
New York
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Posted on Aug 27 2023 03:31 AM
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AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 27 2023 09:25 AM
BB_Bunny wrote:
Interesting! Care to link the video?
https://youtu.be/avGjA9DQJRQ?si=LBOB3kjac3dKRsor
He doesn’t go into much detail regarding the strength of the chemicals he uses so from my experience I’ll also tell you what worked for me.
Pretty much I just bought some sodium hydroxide (lye) in powder form and a bottle of ferric chloride. I put 1 tbsp of lye into a 1/4 cup of water then stirred it with a plastic spoon/straw till it’s pretty much clear again. With a q tip I covered the fretboard with the lye water. Looking back I might’ve done one fret at a time because while it’s still damp, you get another qtip and start applying the ferric chloride to the entire fretboard as well, and you’ll see it just starts to instantly darken, but by the time I got to the end of the neck it was drying up a little so I was bouncing back n forth. Get what you can off of the frets with a dry qtip and let the rest sit for a few minutes. Then wipe it all off with a wet paper towel, then I mixed an ebony tint from stewmac with some alcohol and did the same thing as before, just apply it to the entire fretboard with a qtip, but wiped it off with alcohol instead of water after letting it sit however long you want. Then I buffed some polish on it. It’s easy but wear gloves.
The chemical reaction does 90% of the darkening. I probably could’ve gotten away with not using the alcohol diluted tint but I put it on anyway for good measure. Since the acid itself stains the wood it should never bleed out onto your fingers
Last edited: Aug 27, 2023 09:28:26
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AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 27 2023 03:50 PM
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4440
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Aug 27 2023 06:06 PM
That looks great.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1400
Memphis, TN
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Posted on Aug 28 2023 03:38 PM
Looks awesome, but a little too risky for me. I'll stick to my technique that gets darker over time. It really does look fantastic though.
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New Singles "Finish Line" and "Paradiso" on Bandcamp and website.
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Aug 28 2023 06:36 PM
Why can't you just use Minwax stain?
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AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 28 2023 09:01 PM
SixStringSurfer wrote:
Looks awesome, but a little too risky for me. I'll stick to my technique that gets darker over time. It really does look fantastic though.
I purchased a scrap slab of pau ferro on eBay and tested beforehand. But not gonna lie when I got to my actual fretboard I sat there for a good 5 minutes like I was defusing a bomb and didn’t know which wire to cut. It’s an aggressive approach lol once I went in without fear though it turned out amazing. The reaction and tint itself only penetrates about 1mm into the wood, but with it being acid it’s permanent. Or more permanent than inks and dyes at least. The oxidation on the frets is deactivated with oils like lemon oil. I just used some daddario hydrator and hit the frets with steel wool once I was done
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AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 28 2023 09:06 PM
IceratzSurf wrote:
Why can't you just use Minwax stain?
I was THIS CLOSE to lightly sanding the entire thing and just using India ink, leather dye/stain etc but found this method and when I saw the result I was like “that’s it…” every forum or article I’ve read it always lead to the stain rubbing off over time. Being that this is a chemical reaction physically changing the properties of the wood, it seems like an actual full proof way to darken pau ferro and keep it that way.
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1400
Memphis, TN
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Posted on Aug 28 2023 09:21 PM
How did you not stain the white dots on your fretboard?
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New Singles "Finish Line" and "Paradiso" on Bandcamp and website.
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AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 28 2023 09:26 PM
SixStringSurfer wrote:
How did you not stain the white dots on your fretboard?
It didn’t take for some reason, which is great but unexpected
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1400
Memphis, TN
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Posted on Aug 28 2023 09:40 PM
You got unbelievably lucky that it didn't stick to those dots. I must admit, it looks insanely good. I don't have the guts to try it, not to mention I don't like handling those type of chemicals! You could honestly start a side business doing this.
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. New Singles "Finish Line" and "Paradiso" on Bandcamp and website.
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AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 28 2023 09:48 PM
SixStringSurfer wrote:
You got unbelievably lucky that it didn't stick to those dots. I must admit, it looks insanely good. I don't have the guts to try it, not to mention I don't like handling those type of chemicals! You could honestly start a side business doing this.
I sure did lol I’m not familiar with chemistry at all, just played it safe with gloves and steady hands making sure not to spill anything lol but honestly with the response on my post from Facebook I thought about it anyone can do it I’m just spreading some knowledge. But for those who don’t want to go through the hassle you might be right
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4440
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Aug 28 2023 10:18 PM
SixStringSurfer wrote:
How did you not stain the white dots on your fretboard?
My CV Squier ‘70s Jaguar has an Indian Laurel fretboard that I wouldn’t mind darkening, slightly. I don’t know if the lye treatment would work on this type of wood, and wonder how lye would affect the block inlays. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I’m all ears.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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Tqi
Joined: Dec 07, 2014
Posts: 1222
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Posted on Aug 29 2023 01:34 AM
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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 16:44:05
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IceratzSurf
Joined: Oct 22, 2022
Posts: 283
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Posted on Aug 29 2023 06:17 AM
Sounds pretty hazardous operation,
But does look great!
I think personally I would have used a stain mixed with tung oil.
Last edited: Aug 29, 2023 06:24:53
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AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 29 2023 06:42 AM
synchro wrote:
SixStringSurfer wrote:
How did you not stain the white dots on your fretboard?
My CV Squier ‘70s Jaguar has an Indian Laurel fretboard that I wouldn’t mind darkening, slightly. I don’t know if the lye treatment would work on this type of wood, and wonder how lye would affect the block inlays. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I’m all ears.
I believe the video link I shared he’s darkening Indian laurel with block inlays and it didn’t effect them at all
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AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 29 2023 06:51 AM
Tqi wrote:
AndrewTesta wrote:
I sure did lol I’m not familiar with chemistry at all
Well, fun facts time.
Ferric Chloride is the stuff that's used to eat all the unwanted copper when making a PCB. It's a super dangerous acid!
Sodium Hydroxide is also called Lye. It's the stuff Tyler Durden uses in "Fight Club" to scar the main character, describing it as "the most pain a human can experience" or similar. It's a super dangerous alkali!
Essentially what you've done here is an extremely hardcore version of a baking soda volcano. Only instead of sodium acetate as a byproduct, you've made goethite - or in other words, rust. (also, some table salt!) And since this form of rust is a dark reddish-brown...
I was slightly surprised by the order of play here, since this way the colour won't have penetrated deeply, but lye will also react with fats - so this method probably makes sure that it doesn't get blocked by oils in the fretboard. This should also mean that it's pretty safe in the long run, as long as you have more lye than FeCl - any extra lye will react with fretboard oil to form soap.
Bonus, mixing any spare Lye with vinegar and the FeCl with baking soda will neutralise them into safe byproducts. However, these reactions are really potentially dangerous to perform, so if you have a safer method of disposal I'd do that first. For the lye, you could also try getting some olive oil and making soap?
You had one rule Tqi! Definitely an aggressive approach, I’m familiar with the chemicals, just not the reaction they create when mixed together. Interesting do you think they would still give the same result if I neutralized them first? I made sure to test on a scrap piece of pau beforehand in order to get the right mixture of lye/FeCl. I oiled the board immediately after wiping off any excess chemicals and it didn’t make a giant bar of Dove time will tell, but as of now it feels/plays normal and doesn’t seem to have dried out the fretboard at all. Thanks for the chemistry lesson brotha
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4440
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Aug 29 2023 06:58 AM
AndrewTesta wrote:
synchro wrote:
SixStringSurfer wrote:
How did you not stain the white dots on your fretboard?
My CV Squier ‘70s Jaguar has an Indian Laurel fretboard that I wouldn’t mind darkening, slightly. I don’t know if the lye treatment would work on this type of wood, and wonder how lye would affect the block inlays. If anyone has any thoughts on this, I’m all ears.
I believe the video link I shared he’s darkening Indian laurel with block inlays and it didn’t effect them at all
Thanks. I’ll check out the video.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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AndrewTesta
Joined: Mar 18, 2020
Posts: 123
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Posted on Aug 29 2023 07:18 AM
IceratzSurf wrote:
Sounds pretty hazardous operation,
But does look great!
I think personally I would have used a stain mixed with tung oil.
I almost went that route too, but I’m hoping this is a one and done solution and I won’t have to keep going back every few months/years to touch up or re-darken.
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