My Showman 6G14 proyect

Tqi

Joined: Dec 07, 2014
Posts: 1222
2 Security Pins

Posted on Feb 06 2023 04:32 PM

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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 15:57:18

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SixStringSurfer

Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1351
Memphis, TN
United States

Posted on Feb 07 2023 04:27 PM

I just chimed in to say, be very careful! These amps contain lethal voltages, and you can get seriously injured (or death) if you do not know what you are doing. The brownface Showman is a difficult amp to build, I would discourage you from attempting it on your first go around.

—

MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.

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Surf_fan63

Joined: Jan 09, 2021
Posts: 29
Chile

Posted on Feb 07 2023 04:29 PM

edwardsand wrote:

Lots of good advice already given here. I second the suggestion of building an easier amp first, because the Showman is quite a complex circuit with 10 tubes and 9 potentiometers. Learning a lot of the basics first can make a more complex project more successful. The 6G15 reverb unit is a good suggestion for starting, as it's a more simple circuit and you can use it with any amp, including the Showman in your future.

As an alternative, I'd recommend starting with a 5F1 Champ or 5f2a Princeton - those are even more simple circuits and there are kits available. I expect you could easily sell one of those after you've built it and make your money back, especially if you build the cabinet yourself.

But definitely read up on things first. I've found Rob Robinette's to be really useful and packed with info, and Doug Hoffman's site (el34world.com) likewise has loads of great info on building your own amp. Uncle Doug's repair videos on Youtube are also useful for picking up tips on how to make amps work properly.

Is there a kit for the reverb tank you mentioned? If so, I might get ready to ride it in the near future, thanks for the suggestion

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Surf_fan63

Joined: Jan 09, 2021
Posts: 29
Chile

Posted on Feb 07 2023 04:32 PM

SixStringSurfer wrote:

I just chimed in to say, be very careful! These amps contain lethal voltages, and you can get seriously injured (or death) if you do not know what you are doing. The brownface Showman is a difficult amp to build, I would discourage you from attempting it on your first go around.

I know, I made the post with the intention of receiving advice like yours, the showman I plan to build it when I have the knowledge and the necessary equipment

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edwardsand

Joined: Jun 29, 2018
Posts: 661

Posted on Feb 07 2023 08:05 PM

There are several places that offer kits. They can be expensive, but some give you the option to leave things out, like the cabinet or transformers. Places to check include Mojotone, Tedweber.com, Triode, Tube Amp Doctor.

Mojotone sells a small parts kit, which includes the boards, resistors, capacitors, etc., which is a good option if you are up for sourcing the other parts on your own.

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kick_the_reverb

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1313
Escondido, CA
1 News Pin

Posted on Feb 09 2023 02:18 PM

Thanks Tqi,
I thought we needed to be super clear, in case the subtext was too subtle.
Yesterday I went to Mercury Magnetics' website to try to get some model numbers that were suitable, and got reminded how confusing their info is.
They have pictures of transformers, with disclaimers that the pictures aren't representative.
Two that seem to match in both text and picture to what's suitable for a Brownface Showman are:

FBLS-OM - blonde 4,8,16 Ohm
FBLTW-O - Fender Twin Rare! Blonde #125A4A

A different one that has a 45268 designation has a picture that doesn't match what it should look like, so I didn't include it.
I thought that we should include this info for posterity, but warn that one better contact Mercury Magnetics and not blindly order from them.

I am still with you on the Heyboer being the cheapest and most suitable.

Ran

Tqi wrote:

kick_the_reverb wrote:

Even considering a 16 Ohm OT...not a great idea... Choose 4, or 8, or the multi tap. Mercury Magnetics has all of them, not just the 16 Ohm, but the Heyboer 45268 or multi-tap 45268-1 is probably the best choice for you anyway.

To be very clear, I was definitely not advising the use of the Mercury 16ohm transformer, only noting it's existence. The Heyboer 45268-1 is what I got for mine, rebranded by TAD. It's still what I'd advocate. LLJ used a newer, smaller-stack transformer rather than the period correct one - I can't see the part number, but it fit the mounting holes on the TR chassis, so I'd make a solid guess they used a blackface one.

As you probably know, a Blonde Twin is almost identical to the corresponding year 6G14 (or 6G14-A) Showman. A Twin Reverb, not so much.

There's Marsh Amplification currently offering these on Reverb, too. Good shout! The main advantage of the TR chassis (apart from very ready availability of the chassis and cabs) is that it fits the easily-obtainable Hammond PT I mentioned above - though you have to do some drilling to attach the bigger OT. Mine is hopefully kicking off again soon, I'm waiting for a couple of parts orders, and I've managed to get access to a hackerspace with a rather expansive CNC and other things to help me build a cabinet with my more limited woodworking skills.

—

The Scimitars

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DeathTide

Joined: Apr 13, 2018
Posts: 1343
New Orleans
United States

Posted on Feb 09 2023 06:03 PM

Mercury has completely ignored all three of the emails I've sent (starting about four weeks ago). I guess they don't want my business. Good luck getting in touch with them.

—

Daniel Deathtide

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kick_the_reverb

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1313
Escondido, CA
1 News Pin

Posted on Feb 09 2023 08:16 PM

Incidentally, I recently had my amp tech order a power transformer from Mercury Magnetics to replace the unoriginal blackface PT that was in one of my Showman amps. They asked if we needed a vertical or horizontal one (even though there's only one orientation that fits the chassis). It did arrive quicker than they promised, and it did solve the low voltage issue that the blackface PT caused.
I think for direct replacement PTs they might be the only game in town, but they're probably inconsistent in their communication...Maybe calling them works?
For OTs the suggested manufacturer is Heyboer sold through Mojotone in the US and TAD in Europe.
For PTs, one might have to grit your teeth and deal with Mercury Magnetics.

Ran

DeathTide wrote:

Mercury has completely ignored all three of the emails I've sent (starting about four weeks ago). I guess they don't want my business. Good luck getting in touch with them.

—

The Scimitars

Last edited: Feb 09, 2023 20:17:11

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Tqi

Joined: Dec 07, 2014
Posts: 1222
2 Security Pins

Posted on Feb 10 2023 05:42 AM

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Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 15:59:17

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kick_the_reverb

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1313
Escondido, CA
1 News Pin

Posted on Feb 10 2023 08:37 AM

Fender probably used the underspeced PT because that's what they had an abundance of...IIRC I read an analysis of that by Nic Grabien (who's probably THE expert on Fender production specs for amps).
I used the 67233 equivalent from Mercury Magnetics. I figured that these PTs work in my other amps. Also, Fender later used 125P7A and then 125P7B, but I am not sure how different they were from the 67233.

Ran

—

The Scimitars

Last edited: Feb 10, 2023 21:06:19

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Tqi Joined: Dec 07, 2014 Posts: 1222	Posted on Feb 06 2023 04:32 PM - Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 15:57:18 Top
SixStringSurfer Joined: Sep 23, 2014 Posts: 1351 Memphis, TN	Posted on Feb 07 2023 04:27 PM I just chimed in to say, be very careful! These amps contain lethal voltages, and you can get seriously injured (or death) if you do not know what you are doing. The brownface Showman is a difficult amp to build, I would discourage you from attempting it on your first go around. — MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale. Top
Surf_fan63 Joined: Jan 09, 2021 Posts: 29	Posted on Feb 07 2023 04:29 PM edwardsand wrote: Lots of good advice already given here. I second the suggestion of building an easier amp first, because the Showman is quite a complex circuit with 10 tubes and 9 potentiometers. Learning a lot of the basics first can make a more complex project more successful. The 6G15 reverb unit is a good suggestion for starting, as it's a more simple circuit and you can use it with any amp, including the Showman in your future. As an alternative, I'd recommend starting with a 5F1 Champ or 5f2a Princeton - those are even more simple circuits and there are kits available. I expect you could easily sell one of those after you've built it and make your money back, especially if you build the cabinet yourself. But definitely read up on things first. I've found Rob Robinette's to be really useful and packed with info, and Doug Hoffman's site (el34world.com) likewise has loads of great info on building your own amp. Uncle Doug's repair videos on Youtube are also useful for picking up tips on how to make amps work properly. Is there a kit for the reverb tank you mentioned? If so, I might get ready to ride it in the near future, thanks for the suggestion Top
Surf_fan63 Joined: Jan 09, 2021 Posts: 29	Posted on Feb 07 2023 04:32 PM SixStringSurfer wrote: I just chimed in to say, be very careful! These amps contain lethal voltages, and you can get seriously injured (or death) if you do not know what you are doing. The brownface Showman is a difficult amp to build, I would discourage you from attempting it on your first go around. I know, I made the post with the intention of receiving advice like yours, the showman I plan to build it when I have the knowledge and the necessary equipment Top
edwardsand Joined: Jun 29, 2018 Posts: 661	Posted on Feb 07 2023 08:05 PM There are several places that offer kits. They can be expensive, but some give you the option to leave things out, like the cabinet or transformers. Places to check include Mojotone, Tedweber.com, Triode, Tube Amp Doctor. Mojotone sells a small parts kit, which includes the boards, resistors, capacitors, etc., which is a good option if you are up for sourcing the other parts on your own. Top
kick_the_reverb Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 1313 Escondido, CA	Posted on Feb 09 2023 02:18 PM Thanks Tqi, I thought we needed to be super clear, in case the subtext was too subtle. Yesterday I went to Mercury Magnetics' website to try to get some model numbers that were suitable, and got reminded how confusing their info is. They have pictures of transformers, with disclaimers that the pictures aren't representative. Two that seem to match in both text and picture to what's suitable for a Brownface Showman are: FBLS-OM - blonde 4,8,16 Ohm FBLTW-O - Fender Twin Rare! Blonde #125A4A A different one that has a 45268 designation has a picture that doesn't match what it should look like, so I didn't include it. I thought that we should include this info for posterity, but warn that one better contact Mercury Magnetics and not blindly order from them. I am still with you on the Heyboer being the cheapest and most suitable. Ran Tqi wrote: kick_the_reverb wrote: Even considering a 16 Ohm OT...not a great idea... Choose 4, or 8, or the multi tap. Mercury Magnetics has all of them, not just the 16 Ohm, but the Heyboer 45268 or multi-tap 45268-1 is probably the best choice for you anyway. To be very clear, I was definitely not advising the use of the Mercury 16ohm transformer, only noting it's existence. The Heyboer 45268-1 is what I got for mine, rebranded by TAD. It's still what I'd advocate. LLJ used a newer, smaller-stack transformer rather than the period correct one - I can't see the part number, but it fit the mounting holes on the TR chassis, so I'd make a solid guess they used a blackface one. As you probably know, a Blonde Twin is almost identical to the corresponding year 6G14 (or 6G14-A) Showman. A Twin Reverb, not so much. There's Marsh Amplification currently offering these on Reverb, too. Good shout! The main advantage of the TR chassis (apart from very ready availability of the chassis and cabs) is that it fits the easily-obtainable Hammond PT I mentioned above - though you have to do some drilling to attach the bigger OT. Mine is hopefully kicking off again soon, I'm waiting for a couple of parts orders, and I've managed to get access to a hackerspace with a rather expansive CNC and other things to help me build a cabinet with my more limited woodworking skills. — The Scimitars Top
DeathTide Joined: Apr 13, 2018 Posts: 1343 New Orleans	Posted on Feb 09 2023 06:03 PM Mercury has completely ignored all three of the emails I've sent (starting about four weeks ago). I guess they don't want my business. Good luck getting in touch with them. — Daniel Deathtide Top
kick_the_reverb Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 1313 Escondido, CA	Posted on Feb 09 2023 08:16 PM Incidentally, I recently had my amp tech order a power transformer from Mercury Magnetics to replace the unoriginal blackface PT that was in one of my Showman amps. They asked if we needed a vertical or horizontal one (even though there's only one orientation that fits the chassis). It did arrive quicker than they promised, and it did solve the low voltage issue that the blackface PT caused. I think for direct replacement PTs they might be the only game in town, but they're probably inconsistent in their communication...Maybe calling them works? For OTs the suggested manufacturer is Heyboer sold through Mojotone in the US and TAD in Europe. For PTs, one might have to grit your teeth and deal with Mercury Magnetics. Ran DeathTide wrote: Mercury has completely ignored all three of the emails I've sent (starting about four weeks ago). I guess they don't want my business. Good luck getting in touch with them. — The Scimitars Last edited: Feb 09, 2023 20:17:11 Top
Tqi Joined: Dec 07, 2014 Posts: 1222	Posted on Feb 10 2023 05:42 AM - Last edited: Feb 02, 2024 15:59:17 Top
kick_the_reverb Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 1313 Escondido, CA	Posted on Feb 10 2023 08:37 AM Fender probably used the underspeced PT because that's what they had an abundance of...IIRC I read an analysis of that by Nic Grabien (who's probably THE expert on Fender production specs for amps). I used the 67233 equivalent from Mercury Magnetics. I figured that these PTs work in my other amps. Also, Fender later used 125P7A and then 125P7B, but I am not sure how different they were from the 67233. Ran — The Scimitars Last edited: Feb 10, 2023 21:06:19 Top

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My Showman 6G14 proyect