Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2220
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Jan 27 2023 10:23 AM
So, I need some help and advice)
I am trying to record guitars through the Quilter Superblock US using three basic configurations:
1) Guitar - SurfyBear - Quilter line out with cab sim - Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Mac with Garageband, no other processing
2) Guitar - SurfyBear - Quilter line out with cab sim out (FRFR) - Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Mac with Garageband, IR cab plugin on
3) Guitar - SurfyBear - Quilter - Cab - Microphone - Focusrite Scarlett Solo - Mac with Garageband, no other processing.
It sounds moderately good through cab sim, a little artificial through IR and the worst through microphone. I really like what I hear form the cabinet, so I’ve played a lot with mic position and EQ, but didn’t really improved the sound on the recorded tracks.
What am I doing wrong? I have some ideas:
1) Cheap Focusrite condenser microphone is just no good for this
2) I need to multi mic to get decent results
3) I just need to learn how to record with mic and it’s a long learning curve (and I am several months into home recording)
Shall I try again or just record with cab sim, that is easier but less fun?
Thanks) I may do some samples if needed, but I was so upset that deleted everything yesterday(
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
Last edited: Jan 27, 2023 10:24:37
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revmike
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3783
North Atlantic
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Posted on Jan 27 2023 10:40 AM
I am quite happy recording through my Superblock with the cab sim into Logic X (I have an Apogee Duet intetface). The sound is hardly distinguishable from miking an amp.
Miking an amp is a skill in itself that takes a lot of experimenting. If this is the sound you like, keep moving the mic until you get what you want. It can be a long, frustrating process.
Good luck,
Rev
— Canadian Surf
http://www.urbansurfkings.com/
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futureboy
Joined: Aug 28, 2008
Posts: 115
East Coast
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Posted on Jan 27 2023 11:56 AM
Maybe an SM57 or Ribbon mic would be good to try out if you have access to them. I assume some things are scarce in your part of the world.
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2220
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Jan 27 2023 01:17 PM
revmike wrote:
I am quite happy recording through my Superblock with the cab sim into Logic X (I have an Apogee Duet intetface). The sound is hardly distinguishable from miking an amp.
Miking an amp is a skill in itself that takes a lot of experimenting. If this is the sound you like, keep moving the mic until you get what you want. It can be a long, frustrating process.
Good luck,
Rev
Yes, I have pretty similar thoughts. Maybe direct recording is an easy way to record some decent demos without spending a lot of time on proper micing.
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2220
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Jan 27 2023 01:27 PM
InkEye wrote:
Maybe an SM57 or Ribbon mic would be good to try out if you have access to them. I assume some things are scarce in your part of the world.
I am in Germany so pretty easy to find anything. The main point is budget plus reason to buy additional stuff. Due to some circumstances I have a little budget for gear, so got this Focusrite bundle (audio interface, mic and monitor headphones for 160 euros!!!))) to try recording my Quilter, SurfyBear and other great stuff I have used for live shows. I’ve tried recording using Garageband and Bias FX plugins (not bad by the way) but surely want more)
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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revmike
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3783
North Atlantic
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Posted on Jan 27 2023 03:08 PM
I’m using the Superblock not just for demos, but for some final recordings as well. It sounds that good to me. Extremely happy with the product.
— Canadian Surf
http://www.urbansurfkings.com/
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Vince_Ray
Joined: Aug 26, 2015
Posts: 252
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Posted on Jan 27 2023 03:27 PM
Yeah.....I've always thought that the great amp sound in the room never finds its way onto the recorder. Maybe to do with mics, preamps, positions, mic position, Eq, etc. So, using a XLR output from something cool like the asuoerblock. In theory, they've done a lot of that work for you with this connection.id love to say I recorded my vintage amp live through a cab but TBH, I prefer that XLR link
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ElectricLimnology
Joined: Nov 20, 2017
Posts: 108
Southeast MIchigan
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Posted on Jan 27 2023 11:59 PM
Speaking as a Quilter player and home recording enthusiast, it sounds like the microphone is the issue. I’m guessing your cheap condenser sounds kind of unfocused and harsh. Get an SM57 and try different positions.
Recently a band I play with went to a studio. The other guitar player brought a pile of guitars, two Fender amps and a couple nice mics from home. He’s really into gear. Between his mics and the ones the engineer chose from the studios collection he had four mics on his amps. I deferred to the engineer who simply placed an SM57 slightly off center of my Blockdock 112 cab loaded with Eminence EM12N. I’m more of a minimalist so it was cool with me. My tracks kicked ass and so can yours. You don’t have to be loud either. At home I capture wonderful tones at low to moderate volume.
It’s interesting to hear how many of you are into direct sounds. I’m not opposed to it but it never quite works for me on surf-y stuff. My Quilter is not one with with cab simulator. Maybe I’m missing out.
— The Vicissitones
Diesel Marine
The Rasputones
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2220
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Jan 28 2023 03:14 AM
It probably makes sence. This is a little demo, recorded directly from Quilter XLR, no effects added to guitar later, only some compression and light mastering.
I thought I coild do better with microphone but it seems not)))
https://on.soundcloud.com/9pPfJ
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2220
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Jan 28 2023 03:17 AM
ElectricLimnology wrote:
Speaking as a Quilter player and home recording enthusiast, it sounds like the microphone is the issue. I’m guessing your cheap condenser sounds kind of unfocused and harsh. Get an SM57 and try different positions.
Recently a band I play with went to a studio. The other guitar player brought a pile of guitars, two Fender amps and a couple nice mics from home. He’s really into gear. Between his mics and the ones the engineer chose from the studios collection he had four mics on his amps. I deferred to the engineer who simply placed an SM57 slightly off center of my Blockdock 112 cab loaded with Eminence EM12N. I’m more of a minimalist so it was cool with me. My tracks kicked ass and so can yours. You don’t have to be loud either. At home I capture wonderful tones at low to moderate volume.
It’s interesting to hear how many of you are into direct sounds. I’m not opposed to it but it never quite works for me on surf-y stuff. My Quilter is not one with with cab simulator. Maybe I’m missing out.
I surely will try it sometime, thanks! Now not really ok with spending money on experiments…
Cab sim really works ok, I was surprised. I’ve got Superblock becasue of three Fender voicings and never cared about XLR and cab sims, but now it’s the most used feature.
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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edwardsand
Joined: Jun 29, 2018
Posts: 723
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Posted on Jan 30 2023 08:41 AM
Like several people have pointed out, if you want to record the amp with a microphone at the speaker, the microphone itself will make a big difference. A condenser mic could work (especially the high end ones), but they are best suited to softer sounds like vocals and acoustic guitar. Dynamic microphones are better suited, and the Shure SM57 is the tried and true go-to mic for recording guitar amps. But if you have any decent quality dynamic mic handy, give that a try - it may be just what you need.
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2220
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Jan 30 2023 08:52 AM
edwardsand wrote:
Like several people have pointed out, if you want to record the amp with a microphone at the speaker, the microphone itself will make a big difference. A condenser mic could work (especially the high end ones), but they are best suited to softer sounds like vocals and acoustic guitar. Dynamic microphones are better suited, and the Shure SM57 is the tried and true go-to mic for recording guitar amps. But if you have any decent quality dynamic mic handy, give that a try - it may be just what you need.
Thanks! Unfortunately no, the only mic I have is the Focusrite that was with the bundle. So I guess I will try to make the best with the one I have)
https://www.thomann.de/gb/focusrite_scarlett_solo_studio_3rd_gen.htm
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
Last edited: Jan 30, 2023 08:54:01
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revmike
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3783
North Atlantic
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Posted on Jan 30 2023 06:13 PM
Though the mic can make a big difference, there have been some great recordings made with lesser equipment. Groove, confidence, and great music really make the biggest difference. Your mic will be fine.
Rev
— Canadian Surf
http://www.urbansurfkings.com/
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stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2533
Akron, Ohio
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Posted on Jan 31 2023 03:51 AM
I had much the same problem in the past getting good sound from mic'd cabs. I had plenty of good cabs and mics to choose from but no matter how many mic positions, combinations, cab choices or volume levels I used, it would never sound the same on the recording. Running my Quilters straight into the board via the Stereomaker changed everything. I did have to change my Quilter setting quite a bit from my live sound to get the sound I wanted but it's working!
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2220
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Jan 31 2023 07:00 AM
I am waiting for the second cable and will try recording guitar at the same time with mic and with line out)
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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Tikidog
Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 185
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Posted on Jan 31 2023 07:34 AM
Just the basic question of recording.
what you hear in the room is not what the mic hears...
so you can try different mics (SM57 or Robbin)
different cab simulations ( Suhr reactive load plus IR or OX Box)
to recreate that..
a lot of speaker sims do a pretty good job and work better in small studios than miking...
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2220
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Jan 31 2023 07:49 AM
Tikidog wrote:
Just the basic question of recording.
what you hear in the room is not what the mic hears...
so you can try different mics (SM57 or Robbin)
different cab simulations ( Suhr reactive load plus IR or OX Box)
to recreate that..
a lot of speaker sims do a pretty good job and work better in small studios than miking...
yep, a lot of things to learn!
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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psychonaut
Joined: Dec 08, 2007
Posts: 1302
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Posted on Jan 31 2023 09:41 AM
Although at the moment you only have the focus rite mic, you might find this useful for when you do get a more suitable mic.
It doesn't really matter if it's a condenser, ribbon, or dynamic, the thing to be aware of is the particular microphones frequency response. When you buy a mic, there's always a frequency response chart in the paperwork. This tells you everything you need to know to effectively use that mic for the right application. For example here's the chart for an sm57
You'll notice it has a bump between 6k and 7k
Which makes it suited for most guitars, and it rolls off at 200hz which keeps it out of the way of the bass guitar.
That's why most people recommend the 57 for guitars, although I would recommend a shure unidyne 545 instead which is almost identical to the 57 but has a slightly extended high end and sounds less nasal than the 57
Another example, I really like using an akg d12 on bass drums
The d12 has a bump in the 50hz - 100 hz range which makes it ideal for low end instruments.
That's not all there is to it, there are lots of variables such as proximity effect, mic condition etc... but as a general guide this info really helps.
Most cheaper Chinese mics tend to be hyped in the low and high end in order to make them sound more impressive, so the charts aren't always accurate in that case.
Hope this helps your tone quest!
— https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com
Last edited: Jan 31, 2023 09:45:58
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TheFintastics
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 467
Wichita Falls, Texas
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Posted on Jan 31 2023 10:04 AM
Samurai wrote:
yep, a lot of things to learn!
For what it's worth, the Audio-Technica E609 guitar cabinet mic is an industry standard at a lot of live music venues in the USA that provide a PA for bands. I have one and always get a big thumbs up from sound guys when I bring it with me. Only $99 US dollars.
.
— _
Hi, I'm Gellert, guitarist for The Fintastics.
https://www.facebook.com/TheFintastics
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Samurai
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2220
Kiev, Ukraine
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Posted on Jan 31 2023 01:17 PM
psychonaut wrote:
Although at the moment you only have the focus rite mic, you might find this useful for when you do get a more suitable mic.
It doesn't really matter if it's a condenser, ribbon, or dynamic, the thing to be aware of is the particular microphones frequency response. When you buy a mic, there's always a frequency response chart in the paperwork. This tells you everything you need to know to effectively use that mic for the right application. For example here's the chart for an sm57
You'll notice it has a bump between 6k and 7k
Which makes it suited for most guitars, and it rolls off at 200hz which keeps it out of the way of the bass guitar.
That's why most people recommend the 57 for guitars, although I would recommend a shure unidyne 545 instead which is almost identical to the 57 but has a slightly extended high end and sounds less nasal than the 57
Another example, I really like using an akg d12 on bass drums
The d12 has a bump in the 50hz - 100 hz range which makes it ideal for low end instruments.
That's not all there is to it, there are lots of variables such as proximity effect, mic condition etc... but as a general guide this info really helps.
Most cheaper Chinese mics tend to be hyped in the low and high end in order to make them sound more impressive, so the charts aren't always accurate in that case.
Hope this helps your tone quest!
Thanks, that’s really interesting!
— Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine
https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki
Lost Diver
https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin
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