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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Chinese Imports - I'm 1 for 2

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The brands Danelectro, Zim-gar, etc. you mentioned have stood the test of time. They were cheap in their day, but most (?) were well made and are now collectible. Maybe in 40 years these guitars from AliEXPRESS will also be collectible and luthiers will love to work on them.

If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.

IDK,
Yes - reminds me of my first real electric - a Fender Mustang. It was a piece of crap - lousy sounding pickups, pickup selector switches that sometimes worked; sometimes didn't work.
Vintage Guitar ran an article on the Mustang last month. It was flatly stated that the guitar was not the choice of professionals. I remember John Mclaughlin, Hendrix, and the guitarist in The Seeds played one. That was about it. But yet, I see them going for $1200.00-$1500.00 these days.
Be that as it may, I'll try selling this defective 360F as a wall hanger or "special project".
J Mo'

You mentioned a poorly set neck, and a wierd fretboard issue. Modern guitars are much more dificult to dissassemble and loosen glue than old guitars. Blame modern glue. It's also more difficult to touch up modern finish.

So, while you think these luthiers dont know what they are doing, maybe they know all too well what you are asking them to do is nearly impossible.

"You can't tell where you're going if you don't know where you've been"

Sonchris, IDK,
Points well taken.
A counterpoint that is hopefully also well taken:
If I presented a beat to hell (as in 1 step from firewood) classical guitar to a luthier, I'd probably get a "not worth fixing..I don't want to touch it; it might fall apart as I work on it", etc. tap dance.

But if my name is Willie Nelson and the beat to hell guitar is "Trigger", luthiers would be falling all over themselves to fix it and brag about fixing it.
That's how the world rocks. I get it.
But -
My counterpoint does show that any issues with any guitar can be fixed. Appropriate fires just have to be lit under appropriate rear ends.
J Mo'

Last edited: Jun 22, 2022 10:33:36

J Mo, good point. What if Willie brought in a Chinese Martin knockoff?

If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.

Not to hijack this thread, but I looked at aliexpress.com for the first time, and specifically at ‘electric guitars.’ Price plus shipping seemed to be around $300. Lots of LP and strat copies. Most don’t show the headstock, but it appears they’re not afraid to put Gibson or Fender on them. That surprised me. In the 70’s Gibson sued for copyright infringement based on headstock shape, but now the knockoffs actually have the brand name on them!

There was a Jazzmaster copy with ‘Fender’ on the neck plate (and no pics of the headstock). No one here would confuse this for a real fender. For $300, I’d get a used Squier instead.

If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.

I'm not posting this in judgment of anyone. It may be that some luthier's have a moral issue with these guitars rather than just a reluctance to repair a cheap Chinese guitar. The main deterrent I've had with purchasing one is the fear of it being seized by customs.
I don't believe you're allowed to resell them on Reverb or Ebay although they occasionally pop up on Craigslist as Chibson and Chickenbacker.
I'd see if I could get some money returned from the seller and use it as a donor guitar to learn how to do the repair work myself. I'm sure there's YouTube tutorials on just about anything you need to do to it.

This article is about a bunch they seized last year.

Last edited: Jun 25, 2022 17:32:34

Surf_Skater,
I beg to differ. On the chance I hit a luthier with a "moral compass" on this matter. Fine. Just say so, Mr. Luthier, and skip the "not worth it to fix it" tap dance. Realistically, if that's the problem, it won't be for another luthier. It's a big world.
And - what "moral" is being violated? Perhaps Riokenbacker's patents, copyrights, etc.? Well, lose that idea. We are dealing with the Chinese. In relative terms, a flimsy guitar is the least of what gets copied overseas these days.
A company could poor more money down the drain for copyright infringement with an International lawsuit. Good luck with all that. I suspect the Chinese government and the Chinese attorney who probably has to be used will wink at any (expensive) court case of this nature in China.

What might remedy this? Easy - Make the damn guitar in the U.S. - as you once did in the 1950s-1960s - kind of like the other guitar companies have done? It's a no brainer.
And -

I'm aware of EBAY and other website's policies. But you can buy a similarly made Chinese Byrdland on Ebay for under $400.00. The real deal from Gibson is $8K-$15K these days.

As for Customs Enforcement seizing the goods? It is to laugh as it's not a practical idea. Customs and Border have Fentanyl and other much more serious contraband with which to contend. My dopey import guitar is not high on the list. And I'm only getting one guitar - not a large shipment as your article states.
The packing on both guitars - ordered separately -wasn't even disturbed when I received them.
Maybe they X-rayed it. "Hmm - a guitar in a case..Yawn and Ho-hum". Mr./Ms. customs agent person just moves on to lunch or coffee break.

Being pragmatic...
J Mo'

Last edited: Jun 25, 2022 17:33:06

I'm not an expert, but unless you're importing a shipping container of guitars for sale on US soil, I'm pretty sure customs doesn't bother with copyright infringement or the like at all. When it comes to instruments they'd be most concerned with materials such as exotic woods, ivory, or in the case of the Erhu I brought back from China, snakeskin (which thankfully was synthetic). While not impossible, individual buyers are at almost zero risk of having their goods seized for copyright issues. My guess is the seizure in the article Surf_Skater linked was the result of a longterm sting initiated by the original copyright holders.
In the case of headstock/logo copying, that is very much illegal. I'd imagine either the sellers haven't been discovered yet, are too small to justify the financial loss of litigating, or the rights holders don't want to risk a Streisand effect.

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JohnnyMosrite wrote:

IDK,
I would like to think a luthier works on what a client brings him.

I'm with you. That said, if the type of work necessary is a real pain in the butt I could see them deciding they'd rather take the loss than having to sweat over polishing what they deem a turd. (not that I agree with it).

Hypothetically, if I were a luthier, I'd consider knocking the quote up a bit to either scare the client off or at least sweeten the pot. If the client ends up pulling the trigger anyway, at least I'd make a bit more money for the effort.

If the instrument is otherwise a loss and you enjoy projects, it might be a good opportunity to start learning about guitar repair. I've got a cheap squire that I'm pretty sure needs a new fret but the cost of repair would exceed the value of the instrument so I'm considering sinking the money into some tools and taking a whack at doing it myself.

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I wish SG101 had a like button. My thoughts on the moral implications of buying a bootleg guitar are as follows. Gibson decided to make cheaper copies under the Epiphone line overseas then eventually in China. What did they think would happen? Gibson guitars are way overpriced! When Fender decided to make cheaper versions of their guitars, they kept the same design and logo made in Japan and Mexico. Although the squire line does not include the fender logo, the quality is quite high and the price is low. Fender did it right. Gibson can kiss my ass! Buy authentic Fender guitars always!

The Kahuna Kings

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https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

I've bought Strat and Les Paul copies, but none of them had Fender or Gibson on the headstock. For me, that's going too far.

If I'd stop buying old guitars to fix, I might actually learn to play.
Bringing instruments back to life since 2013.

IDK,
To each his own, I guess. I put a Rickenbacker truss rod cover on the headstock of the good 360F I now have. It's just a piece of plastic after all.

Much like cloned Telecasters and Stratocasters, which are way too easy to build and have built these days, I would not try to hide what the guitar really is.
But -
If I ever did want sell my good 360F clone, it would most definitely go for much more than what I paid in total for it.
Business is business.. I do so love capitalism Cool
J Mo'

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