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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Trying to find a guitar that can do a bit of everything, including surf trem

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edwardsand wrote:

stratdancer wrote:

Heads up on the volume knob issue. I've fixed mine by adding a no-load pot to one of my strats and use rubber washers on the others by placing it under the knob. Never have the problem again.

Thanks for the tip. I remember hearing this one before, but can you give specifics on the washer, like diameter and thickness?

I found this one in my plumbing parts bin. It fits up inside the knob and imparts a lot of friction, so it doesn't move easily. I never use the volume control. Up full blast always. In actuality, I really only had a problem hitting it when trem picking the bottom E right up against the bridge. The second verse of Miserlou for example.
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The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

I get some flak for my humbucker strats from my local Leo purists. The problem is that the humbucker is also a very important tone. Why not have it available on the greatest guitars ever designed. Here's my 1978 that belonged to Michael Stanley. He had the humbucker installed. I bought it in 84 and eventually installed the coil tap and more recently a no-load pot for the bridge. I don't use this for my surf playing but with a string change I could.
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The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

The beauty of owning seven strats is that you can set them all up in a multitude of configurations and each one feels like home when played.
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The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

Last edited: Feb 14, 2022 05:20:42

stratdancer wrote:

I get some flak for my humbucker strats from my local Leo purists. The problem is that the humbucker is also a very important tone. Why not have it available on the greatest guitars ever designed. Here's my 1978 that belonged to Michael Stanley. He had the humbucker installed. I bought it in 84 and eventually installed the coil tap and more recently a no-load pot for the bridge. I don't use this for my surf playing but with a string change I could.
image

My concern about a humbucker on a Strat is that you could lose the ability to have that piercing single coil sound from the bridge pickup. I know that you can wire HBs to be switchable into single coil mode, but at least on the one guitar I have with that feature, it doesn’t quite sound quite like a Fender single coil.

I’m not anti humbucker, in any sense of the word. Actually, the only single coil instruments I own are my VI, my Mustang bass and my Warwick bass. I have four Gretsch, all with Supertrons or DuoTrons, and a Guild with mini HBs. I get my twangy sounds from the Gretsch guitars or the Guild. Both of my Teles have HBs, one being a Korean, set-neck and the other being a Squier Classic Vibe ‘70s Thinline with gigantic HBs, which is strangely not muddy.

As far as the Leo purists are concerned, the fact is that he was gravitating towards the MFD Z-Coil design, such as on the G&L Comanche. I won’t argue that this should be the future of Surf, but it does serve to illustrate that Leo was not stuck in one mode, with regard to pickups. He was open to new ideas and always trying something new.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

-

Last edited: Mar 03, 2022 02:18:03

Another vote for the Strat! Not only because they are great for surf, but also because it is much easier to find a good Strat and have it set up (or set it up yourself with some instructions) than to get a good Jazzmaster or Jaguar and put that into working condition. The construction of a Strat is a little simpler, and they since they are much more common, more people know how to deal with them. Also, it is much easier (and cheaper) to get replacement parts...

I wouldn't worry too much about mods in the beginning (you can always do that later). It's more important to have guitar that feels right and to learn (and write) some tunes.

Los Apollos - cinematic surf music trio (Berlin)
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The pickup discussion is interesting but that's a topic I will have to learn more about before I can have an informed opinion. My only electric guitar now is a tele with all HBs, and so that is the devil I know.... and I only have that because it was on a big sale, not because I knew what I was doing! I still probably couldn't pick out SSS strat from HB tele sound if you quizzed me.

But, since I do want a do-it-all instrument I'll definitely keep the pickup question in mind and try to at least get a guitar that can be modded later if I decide I need it.

This thread was so helpful, thanks again. I am sure I will reread it many times.

Horseflesh wrote:

The pickup discussion is interesting but that's a topic I will have to learn more about before I can have an informed opinion. My only electric guitar now is a tele with all HBs, and so that is the devil I know.... and I only have that because it was on a big sale, not because I knew what I was doing! I still probably couldn't pick out SSS strat from HB tele sound if you quizzed me.

But, since I do want a do-it-all instrument I'll definitely keep the pickup question in mind and try to at least get a guitar that can be modded later if I decide I need it.

This thread was so helpful, thanks again. I am sure I will reread it many times.

Single coil pickups tend to have a brighter sound, in part because they sense the vibration over a narrower pattern of the string. Early pickup designs were single coils and when Leo Fender started building guitars, they used single coil pickups and the Telecaster was part and parcel of the bright Country lead-guitar sound for decades, and still is. Likewise, Muddy Waters use a Telecaster for Blues. Many of the session guitarists of the ‘60s and ‘70s used a Tele when they wanted a Rock sound.

Humbucking pickups use two coils as a way to cancel noise. Humbuckers avoid the 60 cycle hum which can afflict single coil pickups, but humbuckers tend to be less brightly voiced than single coil pickups. Humbucking pickups came along in the late ‘50s with the Gibson humbucker, the Gretsch Filtertron and any number of other Humbucking designs. The Gibson Humbucking pickups tend to be a bit darker than some others humbuckers. It’s interesting that session guitarists tended to use Gibson guitars with humbuckers as their go-to axe, switching to a Tele when they wanted a lot of twang.

As a general rule, more powerful pickups tend to be darker than less powerful pickups, whether they are single coil or Humbucking. That’s just a facet of electrical theory. However, these are general statements. Normally we cut highs from our signals with the tone control of an amp, so while loss of highs sounds bad, it’s still possible to get a bright signal out of almost any pickup.

There’s no single right answer. The classic Surf sound of the early ‘60s was most likely a Strat or a Jaguar, either with single coils. But those are not the only good choices. I’ve heard Surf played on a Gibson ES-335, which uses full-sized humbuckers, and it sounded good.

If you want a do-it-all instrument (and I think that’s a good idea) you will have to accept a bit of compromise. My own “rule” is that I want guitars where I can play an entire gig without having to switch instruments. I hate switching guitars during a gig, so I accept some compromise, but I’ve found my balance with a Gretsch.

As a beginner, you will face a number of challenges and you will find that your tastes in instruments may change, more than once. The idea of one Humbucker guitar and one single coil guitar with a vibrato tailpiece might be a good set.

Since you mention the Gretsch Streamliner, I will weigh in on that possibility. The Gretsch Broad’Tron pickup is definitely not along the lines of the classic Gretsch Filtertron pickup, but will probably sound more along the lines of a Gibson pickup. There are Streamliners with P-90 style single coil pickups, which will will be brighter and would definitely be my first choice.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

synchro wrote:

Horseflesh wrote:

The pickup discussion is interesting but that's a topic I will have to learn more about before I can have an informed opinion. My only electric guitar now is a tele with all HBs, and so that is the devil I know.... and I only have that because it was on a big sale, not because I knew what I was doing! I still probably couldn't pick out SSS strat from HB tele sound if you quizzed me.

But, since I do want a do-it-all instrument I'll definitely keep the pickup question in mind and try to at least get a guitar that can be modded later if I decide I need it.

This thread was so helpful, thanks again. I am sure I will reread it many times.

Single coil pickups tend to have a brighter sound, in part because they sense the vibration over a narrower pattern of the string. Early pickup designs were single coils and when Leo Fender started building guitars, they used single coil pickups and the Telecaster was part and parcel of the bright Country lead-guitar sound for decades, and still is. Likewise, Muddy Waters use a Telecaster for Blues. Many of the session guitarists of the ‘60s and ‘70s used a Tele when they wanted a Rock sound.

Humbucking pickups use two coils as a way to cancel noise. Humbuckers avoid the 60 cycle hum which can afflict single coil pickups, but humbuckers tend to be less brightly voiced than single coil pickups. Humbucking pickups came along in the late ‘50s with the Gibson humbucker, the Gretsch Filtertron and any number of other Humbucking designs. The Gibson Humbucking pickups tend to be a bit darker than some others humbuckers. It’s interesting that session guitarists tended to use Gibson guitars with humbuckers as their go-to axe, switching to a Tele when they wanted a lot of twang.

As a general rule, more powerful pickups tend to be darker than less powerful pickups, whether they are single coil or Humbucking. That’s just a facet of electrical theory. However, these are general statements. Normally we cut highs from our signals with the tone control of an amp, so while loss of highs sounds bad, it’s still possible to get a bright signal out of almost any pickup.

There’s no single right answer. The classic Surf sound of the early ‘60s was most likely a Strat or a Jaguar, either with single coils. But those are not the only good choices. I’ve heard Surf played on a Gibson ES-335, which uses full-sized humbuckers, and it sounded good.

If you want a do-it-all instrument (and I think that’s a good idea) you will have to accept a bit of compromise. My own “rule” is that I want guitars where I can play an entire gig without having to switch instruments. I hate switching guitars during a gig, so I accept some compromise, but I’ve found my balance with a Gretsch.

As a beginner, you will face a number of challenges and you will find that your tastes in instruments may change, more than once. The idea of one Humbucker guitar and one single coil guitar with a vibrato tailpiece might be a good set.

Since you mention the Gretsch Streamliner, I will weigh in on that possibility. The Gretsch Broad’Tron pickup is definitely not along the lines of the classic Gretsch Filtertron pickup, but will probably sound more along the lines of a Gibson pickup. There are Streamliners with P-90 style single coil pickups, which will will be brighter and would definitely be my first choice.

This Streamliner with P-90 is surfy as hell, yep
image

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

New Single is out!

https://waikikimakaki.bandcamp.com/album/rhino-blues-full-contact-surf-single

Waikiki Makaki

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Samurai wrote:

This Streamliner with P-90 is surfy as hell, yep
image

I’ll second that. P-90s are awesome critters.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I just noticed that those are sort of a staple pole. Just an educated guess, but I’d wager that these would be crisp sounding pickups. I’ve played a vintage Byrdland with Staple P-90s and that was a tremendous sound. Ow ya got me Jonse’n for some Staple P-90a. Smile

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

synchro wrote:

I just noticed that those are sort of a staple pole. Just an educated guess, but I’d wager that these would be crisp sounding pickups. I’ve played a vintage Byrdland with Staple P-90s and that was a tremendous sound. Ow ya got me Jonse’n for some Staple P-90a. Smile

they are crisp, bright and pretty hot.

Waikiki Makaki surf-rock band from Ukraine

New Single is out!

https://waikikimakaki.bandcamp.com/album/rhino-blues-full-contact-surf-single

Waikiki Makaki

https://linktr.ee/waikikimakaki

Lost Diver

https://lostdiver.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/vitaly-yakushin

Horseflesh wrote:

The pickup discussion is interesting but that's a topic I will have to learn more about before I can have an informed opinion. My only electric guitar now is a tele with all HBs, and so that is the devil I know.... and I only have that because it was on a big sale, not because I knew what I was doing! I still probably couldn't pick out SSS strat from HB tele sound if you quizzed me.

But, since I do want a do-it-all instrument I'll definitely keep the pickup question in mind and try to at least get a guitar that can be modded later if I decide I need it.

This thread was so helpful, thanks again. I am sure I will reread it many times.

What is your budget. It looks like you are in the Seatle area. I would think Facebook Marketplace would have many strats for sale. That and craigslist. I'd look into an American Standard. A 2012-2015 model would be the ideal choice because they came with Fat 50's pickups which are fantastic pickups for surf. Expect to pay in the 8-900 range.

The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

Of course, looking back at the original post, I see your target budget is $600 or below, and of course, a strat fits the bill here because there are so many out there, including Squiers and a thousand cheap copies. You could probably find a good higher end Squier or a used MIM Fender to purchase. For Squiers, I'd avoid the Affinity series or current Bullet series, and look for a Standard Series or Custom Vibe. Those would be well-made and you can easily upgrade them when you have an idea what's working or not working for you.

Personally, though, if I were going to get a(nother) strat-type guitar, it would be a Yamaha SC300t - same basic setup, but cool/distinctive body shape.

I'm not on FB, but I do check Craigslist and Reverb regularly... having a list of good candidates is one of the things I hoped to get out of this thread and it's coming along! If I have a few good options in mind, something right will pop up for sale sooner or later. Or, I can cave in and buy new.

Because a good trem is a requirement, a Bigsby is a contender and so I see lots of Gretsch guitars when I shop around ... sounds like a Streamliner could be a good pick. Maybe not as versatile as a strat, but I guess you could do worse if you only have one guitar.

I'll look at the Yamaha SC300t too @edwardsand ... They make some great stuff. Unfortunately all the Squiers I see around me are Bullets. I know the higher end Squiers are OK, in fact my bass is a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar. It is clearly much better made than my Affinity tele.

Whatever I get will have some compromises and that's fine. There will also be things I wish I knew first, and that is OK too. I have learned over the years that in any gear-centric hobby, no matter how much research you do you'll always find something you wish you knew before a purchase.

(Best option I have seen so far is a G&L Legacy Tribute, seemingly in like-new condition, for $400. But, it's not an HSS ... though it may not matter.)

Horseflesh wrote:

I'm not on FB, but I do check Craigslist and Reverb regularly... having a list of good candidates is one of the things I hoped to get out of this thread and it's coming along! If I have a few good options in mind, something right will pop up for sale sooner or later. Or, I can cave in and buy new.

Because a good trem is a requirement, a Bigsby is a contender and so I see lots of Gretsch guitars when I shop around ... sounds like a Streamliner could be a good pick. Maybe not as versatile as a strat, but I guess you could do worse if you only have one guitar.

I'll look at the Yamaha SC300t too @edwardsand ... They make some great stuff. Unfortunately all the Squiers I see around me are Bullets. I know the higher end Squiers are OK, in fact my bass is a Squier Vintage Modified Jaguar. It is clearly much better made than my Affinity tele.

Whatever I get will have some compromises and that's fine. There will also be things I wish I knew first, and that is OK too. I have learned over the years that in any gear-centric hobby, no matter how much research you do you'll always find something you wish you knew before a purchase.

(Best option I have seen so far is a G&L Legacy Tribute, seemingly in like-new condition, for $400. But, it's not an HSS ... though it may not matter.)

That G&L sounds like a good deal.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I second the G&L for a guitar that can cover a lot of ground. The price seems really good. Strat style guitars are really versatile and can be used in pretty much any genre. I have a Strat Plus that has served me well in most situations.

If you find you are missing the humbucker sound for the bridge pick up (Seymour duncan, dimarzio, and others make them). They are around $100.

https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/latest-updates/a-guide-to-strat-stack-guitar-pickups

https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/strat/stacked-hum-canceling-strat

Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

Last edited: Feb 16, 2022 09:37:28

Oh cool, I didn't realize they made stacked HBs!

I'd start off with a Squier Strat, Jazzmaster or Jag for around $500. I've tried all of them and ultimately ended up with a Jazzmaster. They're a great value for the price and totally worth investing in upgrades if you ever wanted to.

That being said, my main guitar for the last 20 years has been a RIC 620, which is surprisingly good for the Surf/instro stuff. Shock

Squier Classic Vibe Jaguar. Hands down. They sound better, feel better, and look cooler than a Strat. You can play anything you want on a Jaguar depending on the way it's set up, it can be chunky and aggressive with thick strings, or very slinky with thin strings. The only things a Strat can do that a Jag can't do is dive bomb on the vibrato, and quack like a duck. Unless you're setting out to do some hardcore wanking then you should really consider a Jaguar.

HTH

Last edited: Feb 17, 2022 01:02:55

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