Saber wrote:

I recently aquired a Vintera´60s Jaguar, that I really like.

The pickups are good, but I´m thinking of an upgrade for a more traditional chunky surf thump sound ala The Lively Ones.

I could´nt find a comparison between the Vintera and other Jaguar pickups...

Would a Pure Vintage 65, a Lollar or Novak set be an improvement over the Vintera pickups for a surf tone?

The Jaguar is setup with Pyramid Gold 13-56 flats accompanied with a 1973 Silverface Twin Reverb and a True Spring Reverb pedal.

Thanks for your opinion and experience.

I don’t know the specs of the pickups you now have, but I know that the Pure Vintage Jaguar pickups are great sounding. I have a Fender Japan Bass VI and the Pure Vintage pickups transformed it.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Saber wrote:

The Fender Vintera 'new vintage style pickups' are unbeveled AlNiCo 5 with cloth wire, designed by Tim Shaw.
Fender Part number is 7716133000 / 7716132000. The are made in Mexico.

Mine both read 6,2 DCR.

Slightly lower DCR than the Pure Vintage, but close enough that I doubt you'd notice the difference.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

FWIW, I have a set of the Pure Vintage '65 Jaguar pickups in my Squier VM Jag and they improved the tone tremendously.

Hopefully a bit more relevant to your ask, I've upgraded my Vintera '60s Jazzmaster with Pure Vintage '65 Jazzmaster pickups and it was a significant difference to me.

Along with the Vintera Jazzmaster, I own a Vintera '50s Tele and '50s Strat - I didn't particularly care for any of the Vintera stock pickups so they've all been upgraded - Fender Custom Shop Texas Specials for the '50s Tele and Fralin Hum-Cancelling Strat pickups for the '50s Strat.

In any case, the Fender Pure Vintage '65 pickups are a reasonably priced and worthwhile upgrade if you aren't happy with the stock pickups.

Novak makes some awesome pickups, too. I've got a set of JM-HC (Jazzmaster Hum-Cancelling) Gold Foil pickups in one of my other Jazzmasters - they're pricier, but worthwhile.

The doofus formerly known as Snorre
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ArabSpringReverb wrote:

per sabre and Synchro's posts ..I dont think changing one vintage type Alnico V pickup for another with similar resistance value will bring much change in sound .

The difference in DC resistance is only about 10%, so unless there is a huge difference in the inductive reactance of the coil, the difference would be negligible. Most Jaguar pickups are bright by nature and that’s one reason that there’s a strong market for Jag’ pickups that are darker, like the Quarter Pounders that Seymour Duncan sells. But for Surf, that brightness is probably what brought us here in the first place.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

SixStringSurfer wrote:

I upgraded to the vintage 1965 pickups on my Jag, and it made a HUGE difference. I would definitely recommend doing this if you're looking for a more traditional surf sound.

Was it a Vintera, a CIJ or am MIM Jaguar? I´m definitly looking only for the true surf tone. I wonder if Lollars are more of a modern than an tradional sound? The set is AlNiCo 2 for the bridge and V for the neck.

cirecc wrote:

I can speak pretty highly for the PV65’s in Jake’s absence now that I have two jaguars with them installed. They are great pickups at a great price. As someone who often has the boutique pickups installed in guitars, I still chose them over the double the cost lollars, etc. I saw that Lollar used alnico ii for the bridge. I believe the early jags had alnico ii, is that right? I wouldn’t associate alnico ii with a more modern sound either way. It’ll round off the highs most likely and maybe soften the transients compared to alnico v.

I tend to agree with Synchro on most things. I might slightly disagree here though I have zero experience with the vintera pickups. I have had strat pickups with the same magnet type and very similar dc resistance and inductance that sounded pretty different to my ears. How they’re wound, type of wire, rod dimensions, potting, etc. can affect the tone somewhat as well. They’ll sound similar but with some subtle differences that might be important to the player. That being said, I can’t tell you that changing from the vintera to the ‘65s will yield a noticeable difference or not.

My comments were based on the only information I had to work with, the DC resistance figure. Static resistance is but one measurement, and it tells only one thing for certain, and that it the static (DC) resistance of the coil windings. If you have the inductance of the pickup, you can calculate the impedance, which tells a larger story. However. Static resistance is a huge component of impedance. Impedance is the square root of the resistance squared plus the reactance squared. In the case of a guitar pickup, the inductive reactance will be a small contributor to the total.

All that having been said, there are innumerable variables, many of which are hard to quantify. The flux lines from the magnet probably being a major example of this. Spacing of magnets, the way the coil is wound, the pickup height and the rest of the circuit all contribute. If all other factors were the same, the difference between a pickup with 6.2 K ohm static resistance and a pickup with 6.8 K ohm static resistance would be all but imperceptible.

In acoustics, it normal takes a doubling or halving of a value in order to have a perceptible change. A few years back, I experimented with capacitor values in a tone circuit and it took a fairly large change of cap’ value to even be audible. It’s that way with other components, as well.

Pickups are very hard to pin down, because of all the variables and pickup height is probably the greatest variable. Fields operate according to the inverse square law, so the difference in effect is at the square of distance between the pickup and the string. In practical terms, half a turn of the height adjustment screws has much more effect that the difference in specs between two pickups of similar construction, but with slightly different specs.

With that as prologue. I’ll share my approach.

I would start with a baseline and adjust the stock pickups to optimum performance. I use brass rod gauges for measuring pickup height. https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-electronics/pickup-clearance-gauges/ This reduces the guesswork and allows me to keep track of my settings. It’s a great tool to have. When I baseline, I check side to side balance of each pickup (balance of bass and treble strings) and the balance between the two pickups once the side to side balance is good. Overall height is limited by string clearance with the strings depressed at the highest fret. I tend to run my pickups high, but it’s a matter of taste. Once you have the balance right, you can reduce the pickup height by counting turns of the pickup adjustment screws, if you want to lower the pickups slightly. During all of this, I keep the volume and tone controls maxed and use the pickup switch to isolate the pickups when setting side to side balance. Obviously, you can’t adjust the pickups until you have your bridge adjusted properly.

Just doing these adjustments will give you an accurate picture of what the stock pickups are capable of giving you. I use the baseline concept all the time. When I play, I start with the volume control at 75% rotation, which gives me the possibility to cut, or raise volume, to suit the situation.

Only at this point would I consider whether or not I wanted to replace the pickups.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

synchro wrote:

I would start with a baseline and adjust the stock pickups to optimum performance. I use brass rod gauges for measuring pickup height. https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/tools-by-job/tools-for-electronics/pickup-clearance-gauges/ This reduces the guesswork and allows me to keep track of my settings. It’s a great tool to have. When I baseline, I check side to side balance of each pickup (balance of bass and treble strings) and the balance between the two pickups once the side to side balance is good. Overall height is limited by string clearance with the strings depressed at the highest fret. I tend to run my pickups high, but it’s a matter of taste. Once you have the balance right, you can reduce the pickup height by counting turns of the pickup adjustment screws, if you want to lower the pickups slightly. During all of this, I keep the volume and tone controls maxed and use the pickup switch to isolate the pickups when setting side to side balance. Obviously, you can’t adjust the pickups until you have your bridge adjusted properly.

Just doing these adjustments will give you an accurate picture of what the stock pickups are capable of giving you. I use the baseline concept all the time. When I play, I start with the volume control at 75% rotation, which gives me the possibility to cut, or raise volume, to suit the situation.

Only at this point would I consider whether or not I wanted to replace the pickups.

All very good points! I agree about pickup height being a huge factor, particularly with jag and strat pickups.

I’m learning to run my jag at about 80% volume since those 1meg pots really let all the highs pass through. Normally, I have been a just turn it up all the way type of person, on a jag it makes a huge difference taking that little bit off the top.

-Eric

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Last edited: Jan 08, 2022 14:22:36

See, we continue to agree. I have both of mine set up with .012” thomastik js flats and am almost always on both pi’s. You get the clarity and a good reverb drip with less piercing highs (though for me it’s always been an upper mids issue ~3khz).

-Eric

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