MelWaldorf
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 646
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Posted on Aug 26 2020 06:27 PM
Gang,
Cooped up minds go strange places. My mind decided to hyper-focus on reverb pans and why vintage and modern pans sound different. So I conjured up a test - a modern MOD 4AB3C1B pan (the standard for Fender applications: long, two spring, long decay pan), a modern MOD 4AB1C1B pan (same as above, but short decay), a modern MOD 4AB3C1B with springs from a vintage Gibbs pan installed, and a vintage 4AB3C1B.
Video is below. Lots of blathering at the beginning, playing commences around 3:20 in.
My feeling is that the vintage pan sounds best (duh) but the 4AB1C1B and the 4AB3C1B with vintage springs, while still a bit too enveloping, are strong contenders and have a decay length much closer to a vintage unit.
If you can find a vintage pan with the correct impedances, that'll always be the best bet, but if you can't find that, and you're not the tinkering type to swap springs, you'll still get much closer to vintage tone with a new short decay pan than a new long decay one.
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4128
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Aug 26 2020 07:25 PM
The spring is the thing? Everybody’s heard that the bird is the word! 
Interesting. IIRC, I sent you a long decay pan a number of years ago, or perhaps I offered to send it to you, but you were wise enough to turn it down. I put that tank in a Deluxe Reverb and it was all but unplayable. Because you were a tank guy, and at the time, I was just using a DRRI, I figured that you might get some use out of it with the dwell rolled off a bit; an option not open to me with the DRRI.
Actually, I’m in reverb recovery now. I’m off the Spring stuff and confine myself to Plate, most of the time. Plate is far less habit forming.
Anyway, cool test. The new tank with olde springs sounded pretty good.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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edwardsand
Joined: Jun 29, 2018
Posts: 661
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Posted on Aug 27 2020 09:09 AM
I've been wondering about the process of switching out the springs in new pans - is it relatively easy? I recall reading that some brands glue the end of their springs in so they are hard to remove. Is that the case with the MOD pans, or are they simply hooked in like with the old pans?
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Surfadelphia
Joined: Sep 04, 2017
Posts: 403
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Posted on Aug 27 2020 09:47 AM
From one bored "Yahoo Yutz" to another, thanks for another cool demo/comparison video.
A few things: I see that the modern/contemporary pans you used were MOD pans. It would be interesting to see how modern/contemporary equivalent Accutronics pans compared. In my somewhat limited experience, I have found that MOD pans tend to have longer decays than identically spec'd Accutronics pans. I have a Chinese made reverb unit that is basically a clone/copy of a '63 Fender Unit that came stock w/ a modern Accutroics 4AB3C1B. I swapped out the Accutronics 4AB3C1B for a MOD 4AB3C1B and found the MOD to have too much decay creating the same issue that you experienced in your tests. So I put the Accutronics 4AB3C1B back in....it's not perfect, but it's better. Which leads me to ponder (as I have nothing really better to do besides working from home) if a modern Accutronics 4AB2C1B (medium decay) might be an improvement?
My other question pertains to who is making the stock Fender pans these days? I was always under the impression that Fender pans (at least in thee tube models and reissues like the DRR, PRR, and TR) were Accutronics pans? As you can see, I am truly a man lost in pandemic space. 
Last edited: Aug 27, 2020 09:49:31
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MelWaldorf
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 646
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Posted on Aug 27 2020 05:50 PM
Synchro, I believe you sent me a shorty pan, which may have been vivisected as I tried to learn the inner workings of reverb pans. ;)
EdwardSand, MOD puts dollups of epoxy on the joint between the springs and the magnet mounting wires. I was able to remove it by gently squeezing the epoxy with needlenose pliers from a few different directions. I believe that other manufacturers just crimp the end of the wire.
Surfadelphia, you're right, MOD pans seem to have longer decay than equivalent pans from other manufacturers. I wound up using MOD pans because I already had a couple to futz with, and they were the only ones making a 4AB1C1B pan. You're probably correct about an Accutronics 4AB2C1B medium decay pan having shorter decay than a MOD 4AB1C1B. I don't know who makes the pans for current Fender production, Accutronics would make sense, but I don't know for certain.
Yahoo Yutzes of ridiculous reverb refinement - unite!
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4128
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Aug 27 2020 06:49 PM
MelWaldorf wrote:
Synchro, I believe you sent me a shorty pan, which may have been vivisected as I tried to learn the inner workings of reverb pans. ;)
EdwardSand, MOD puts dollups of epoxy on the joint between the springs and the magnet mounting wires. I was able to remove it by gently squeezing the epoxy with needlenose pliers from a few different directions. I believe that other manufacturers just crimp the end of the wire.
Surfadelphia, you're right, MOD pans seem to have longer decay than equivalent pans from other manufacturers. I wound up using MOD pans because I already had a couple to futz with, and they were the only ones making a 4AB1C1B pan. You're probably correct about an Accutronics 4AB2C1B medium decay pan having shorter decay than a MOD 4AB1C1B. I don't know who makes the pans for current Fender production, Accutronics would make sense, but I don't know for certain.
Yahoo Yutzes of ridiculous reverb refinement - unite!
Ok, that makes sense. When I built my Faux-Showman, based upon the Twin you converted to a piggyback, I had to go to a 9” pan. You were actually the person that put me hip to using a shorty pan with such a conversion. Being the jean-yes I am, I decided to try a long decay pan, figuring that it would make up for the shorter pan size. Well, being a jean-yes ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, and I felt like I was drowning in reverb trails. So I bought an Accutronics medium decay pan and sent the long decay off to you, envisioning it being eventually flung off the Golden Gate Bridge in disgust, but you went one better, dissecting it without anesthesia.
Ahh, the good old days. The sad, and amazing thing, is that my Twin hasn’t been plugged in in 2-3 years. We haven’t played an outdoor gig in years and my current go-to amp is a mighty 12 watts.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
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cosmonaut
Joined: Apr 02, 2019
Posts: 339
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Posted on Aug 28 2020 02:09 PM
Thanks for the writeup, Mel. I build amps now so I'm willing to go this route if I can scour Ebay.
I built up my own 6g15 based on fender's layout, may need to change some component values for modern times. originally had a Mod pan and it sounded like everything I hate about blackface fender reverb sounds. Dark, washy, almost slapback delay quality.
Picked up a New Belton-made Accutronics and got the drip like my old 63 reissue unit. moved across the country months later, plugged the Accutronics back in, and suddenly it doesn't sound the same compared to the recordings I made of it. No drippy palm-muting. I'm at a loss as to what changed, but maybe the springs got stretched out somehow? Swapped all the tubes for good NOS 6k6 and mullards, Nada.
I've considered buying a 90s reissue but the prices are obscene now. I wish I never sold my unit here on sg101 in the mid-2000s.
Last edited: Aug 28, 2020 14:12:31
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