DaveMudgett wrote:

How the heck did the rhythm guitar thread discussion get to Stevie Ray Vaughn?

This -

It takes a very gifted guitarist to play lead and rhythm at the same time. Stevie Ray Vaughan comes to mind as someone that could shift seamlessly between a rhythm line and lead.

and perhaps this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWw55XhTehg - makes it not so outlandish to utter SRV and surf in the same breath.

My earlier point was about the strict separation of lead vs. rhythm guitar, not an argument for the absence of rhythm guitar. Good rhythm guitar is essential for lots of styles of music, not just surf.

On the point about Kenny Burrell influencing SRV - I remember way back when, Dick Cavett was questioning Jimi Hendrix about something or other, and Jimi responded something like - I'm just trying to sound like Kenny Burrell - parapharasing, it's been 50 years. Kenny is one of the coolest cats in jazz land, and his comping (jazz for rhythm guitar) and chord-melody playing is at a very, very high level. My bet is that Stevie (who was around my age) saw that same interview and went digging for Kenny Burrell records, as did I and probably hundreds or thousands of others.

Good being the operative word. I’m from the same generation as SRV, we were born less than a month apart. When I started playing at age 11, lead and rhythm were usually spoken about as separate skills, with the implied expectation that a given player would be good at one or the other, but not both.

As off the wall as that sounds, it was not without some basis in reality. In the Big Band era, rhythm guitar was a high art and I could easily imagine that some of the great rhythm players of that era probably didn’t expend much time on melody playing. There would have been little outlet for that skill. That’s one reason that Charlie Christian was such a big deal. The line from Charlie Christian and Surf guitar may not seem obvious at a casual glance, but Christian taking solos while playing with Benny Goodman was revolutionary. Such a thing had only been technically possible for, perhaps, 10 years. I wouldn’t argue that Charlie Christian was the first Surf guitarist, but he laid the groundwork for the generation of postwar guitarists such as Chet Atkins, Billy Butler (who played the guitar part on Honky Tonk) and Duane Eddy.

The focus changed considerably and the concept of lead guitar came into its own. When I was a student, the rhythm was usually played by a second stringer, because it was commonly thought to require less skill. But truly good rhythm playing involves a lot more than just playing chords that match the names on the chord chart. Playing chords that lead into one another properly is a real skill.

Some of the old Surf bands had excellent rhythm players and they added a great deal. I’ve played with rhythm players that were skilled and it’s a pleasure. I’ve also played with rhythm players that played a series of chords which were technically correct, but the logic of their voicing choice was lacking and there were many non sequiturs which detracted from the overall sound. Speaking only for myself, I’d prefer not having a rhythm player over playing with someone that plays poorly chosen voicings.

I’ve seen that clip of Stevie Ray and Dick Dale before. The fact that Stevie Ray Vaughan was chosen to represent the ‘80s generation of players in that movie speaks volumes. He definitely put his Texas Blues touch in, and it worked, at least for the purposes of the movie. I would have loved to have heard what he would have done with Surf in a more serious setting. I’d be willing to bet that he would have really ripped up on some Surf.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

This thread could use some Paul Johnson!

DannySnyder wrote:

What I want to know is what kind of Croatian voodoo did Ivan Pongracic invoke to get not one, but two of the best rhythm guitarists in modern surf music?

Mark English in the Space Cossacks and Patrick O'Connor of The Madeira. Both players' precise playing are integral to making those bands the very top of the domestic modern surf scene. If you're unfamiliar with those bands, click the links.

There are very few guitarists I respect to the degree that I respect Ivan. There’s no doubt that such a skilled artist can attract some serious talent.

BTW, Ivan’s father is no slouch as a rhythm player, so he is triply blessed.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

It's very rare to get a band of this caliber combined with quality sound and video. Rhythm guitarist Yolanda Marisol puts on a clinic supporting an inspired set of Latin-tinged surf/instro.

Last edited: Jul 05, 2020 13:08:23