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Why didn't I do this sooner?!

image

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

Nice! What were you using before?

I have a few reverb tanks, a Gomez and a Texotica. This is just so much easier to cart around!

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

Very nice!
I've never played through one.
But I have heard them, and my ears tell me that they sound pretty darn good.

Last edited: Mar 21, 2020 22:49:25

At first it was really trebly but after messing with the settings, I dialed in a good tone. I can't use the same settings as my tube tanks for some reason. Anyone else have any issues?

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

Matt22 wrote:

At first it was really trebly but after messing with the settings, I dialed in a good tone. I can't use the same settings as my tube tanks for some reason. Anyone else have any issues?

Yeah, I’ve noticed that on mine as well. In general I have to run the mix and dwell settings a bit higher than I do with my tube units. It’s not a huge amount but enough to take note of.

-John

The Seatopians 2017-
The Seatopians on Altered State of Reverb
The Seatopians on bandcamp
The Seatopians on Facebook

giant robot Richard 1999-2002
grR on Bandcamp
grR on Facebook

Thanks for responding. I've noticed the same. At first I was just really surprised but after fooling around with the settings, I was able to dial it in. Glad I wasn't the only one.

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

For those that notice a difference between the Surfy Bear and the tube unit, have you tried swapping pans?
Or tried testing and comparing with one and the same pan?

There can be such a huge difference between pans (even the same type and same brand) it's almost like comparing two identical amps but with two different speakers.

You're totally correct. The pans make a difference for sure. I've messed around with mine and compared it with my tube reverbs. I still prefer the tube reverb sound as I think it's a bit warmer. Whether that has to do with the pan, I don't know. The Surfy Bear is good, don't get me wrong, and I will surely use it live. For recording, though, I'm going to go the warmer route. Who knows, the more I play the Surfy Bear live (when that will be is up in the air currently), it may loosen up a bit. It's brand new and may need a "breaking-in" period like amps do.

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

Do you remember the reverb shootout by Sancho Pansen of a few years ago.
link here...
I picked out the Gomez and Surfy Bear as best sounding unit due to the pair making an identical background noise. Similar to a 5 switch Strat in position 2 harmonic sound? difficult for me to explain. I also noted the spring sounding different but fairly transparent. True I don't play in a band and rarely get to play loud, I don't fully understand the change of pan discussions. A Reaper DAW video peaked my interest which explained Pre-Reverb whereby a few milliseconds of reverb is delayed on the initial striking notes and thus making a less muddy signal. Does any of these effects units including the 6G15 have pre-reverb and would it be better that fiddling around with pans.

A couple of other questions about the Surfy Bear floor pedal.
We see Oleg of Messer Chups making good use of splashing his Fender Reverb outboard but his unit is taller and should be easier to rock/tilt due to the extra leverage. Is the Surfy Industries harder to splash and if so would it be better to move the rear underside legs forward and perhaps a topside rubber pad for ones size 11 clog.

crumble wrote:

I don't fully understand the change of pan discussions. Does any of these effects units including the 6G15 have pre-reverb and would it be better that fiddling around with pans.

I think the 'official' term is "pre-delay", the time for the first 'reverb-echo' to arrive.

Every pan has a pre-delay, simply because it physically takes time for the 'wiggle' on the spring to travel from the input transducer to the output transducer.
The longer the spring, the longer the pre-delay.
Springs can be stretched harder or less so that in the same width pan you can have shorter and longer springs.

You can measure the pre-delay of a pan by playing/recording a click sound.
In a DAW you can then see the time interval between the dry click sound and the moment the first echo arrives.

A while ago I measured the pre-delay of some of my pans:

Type-4 long pan, 2 springs:
vintage Accutronics: 27ms / 33ms (spring 1/ spring 2)
2015 Accutronics: 30ms / 39ms
2019 Accutronics: 31ms / 39ms
2019 TAD: 33ms / 42ms

Type-8 short pan, 3 springs:
2015 Accutronics: 22ms / 26ms / 28ms (spring 1/ spring 2/ spring3)
2019 Accutronics: 22ms / 26ms / 28ms
2019 TAD: 22ms / 26ms / 28ms

Type-9 long pan, 3 springs:
2019 TAD: 33ms / 37ms / 42ms

On a further note, that first echo 'bounces' at the output transducer and travels back to the input transducer and there it bounces and travels back to the output transducer for the second 'repeat'. And again and again.
So the repeats for that Vintage Accutronics pan will be:
spring 1: 27ms, 81ms, 135ms, 189ms, 243ms, 297ms
spring 2: 33ms, 99ms, 165ms, 231ms, 297ms

For some period of time, the echos/repeats of one spring occur in between the echos of the other spring.
This contributes to diffusion and makes up for a reverb sound rather than a repeating echo sound.
This explains the advantage of using 2 long springs of slightly different length:
You get the benefit of a relatively long pre-delay by using a long spring and at the same time, the time interval between repeats is short giving a more smooth, diffuse reverb sound.

But the 5th repeat of spring1 coincides with the 4th repeat of spring2.
Depending on the difference between the delay times of the two springs you get these coincidences more often of less often.
The more often they occur the more clearly you hear distinct echos in the reverb sound.

crumble wrote:

would it be better that fiddling around with pans.

In general, adding (additional) pre-delay separates the first 'reverb-echo' from the attack of the dry sound.
It can be a (recording) trick for a less muddy or clogged up sound.

Specifically to spring reverb, people have tried adding a bit of pre-delay to make shorter pans/springs sound closer to longer pans/springs.

If you mix in some of that predelay to the dry sound you get a combination of slapback + spring reverb. Maybe this was also signature sound on older recordings which people try to replicate?

I don't know of any analog spring reverb units to have an adjustable pre-delay. It would require the addition of the entire circuit you'd find in a delay pedal, either analog (bbd) or digital.
The only unit that comes to mind is the Danelectro Spring King. But I thought they added a short predelay (PT2399S chip) to make up for the shorter spring(s) it has inside.
You can mod it to make the delay time adjustable: http://jacobkorn.de/studio/danelectro-spring-king-mod.html

crumble wrote:

I don't fully understand the change of pan discussions.

In my opinion you swap pans, not for their very minimal difference in pre-delay, but more for:
- drip: some definitely have more drip than others
- frequency response: some pans sound much brighter and others a lot darker
- decay time: even though two pans of the same brand can be labeled 'long decay' the difference can be quite large
- diffusedness: as explained above, with some pans you hear more distinct echos/repeats in the tail or decay than with others.

Last edited: Mar 26, 2020 06:19:23

Hi J_flanders. Thanks so much for taking the time to write in so many words the answer to my query. In essence I now understand why pan selection is critical for some players. Thumbs Up

Belated congrats, Matt!

The doofus formerly known as Snorre
Surfysonic on Twitch
Surfysonic on YouTube
World Famous Philistines: 2014 - 2015
https://www.facebook.com/world.famous.philistines/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel
K39: 2013 - 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv9JADQ4ukw

Surfysonic wrote:

Belated congrats, Matt!

Thanks Steve! Hope you're doing well!

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

Grats on the Surfy Bear, Matt. Never heard one that didn't sound great.

The Mystery Men?
SSS Agent #31

Thanks Richard! Hope all is well with you and the family!

Matt "tha Kat" Lentz
Skippy and the Skipjacks: 2018-
Skippyandtheskipjacks.net
https://www.facebook.com/skippyandtheskipjacks
Otto and the Ottomans: 2014-2015
The Coconauts surf band: 2009-2014
www.theamazingcoconauts.com
Group Captain and the Mandrakes 2013
http://www.gcmband.com/
The Surfside IV: 2002-2005, 2008-2009
the Del-Vamps: 1992-1999, 2006-2007
http://www.dblcrown.com/delvamps.html

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