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SurfGuitar101 Forums » The Shallow End »

Permalink Making music accessible to children, and providing opportunities for gifted young musicians.

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Children LOVE live music. The band in which I play, has played a number of events which were held in public venues which are open to all ages and I always enjoy watching the effect live music has upon children. In many cases, they congregate near the front of the stage and dance without a shred of self-consciousness. When they tired of dancing, they would stick around and listen. It was as if live music cast an irresistible spell upon them.

I gave that a bit of thought and remembered that when I was a child, I loved music every bit as much, but very rarely did I have the opportunity to see music performed live. Then, as I got older and began learning to play music, I was frustrated by the fact that most live music took place in venues with liquor licenses and minors were not allowed (for good reason, I might add).

Speaking to a good friend, somewhat my senior, he told tales of standing in the alley behind Shaner’s, a club in downtown Denver, late at night, so he could hear jazz guitarist Johnny Smith. Eventually, someone in the kitchen took pity upon him and arranged an introduction to Johnny, between sets.

First, let me clarify, I’m not thinking in terms of “Children’s Music” or whatever is flavor of the month on some radio station, I am thinking in terms of allowing children to hear forms of music that might not be commercially promoted. While live music venues open to youngsters were all but non-existent in my home town, I was fortunate in that the local school system promoted music in the schools. In grade school, we had a music class where we sang, listened to music and learned some basic theory. Thanks Mrs. LaVonne; I may not have been paying much attention at the time, but your lessons did sink in and have served me well for many years. We also had music appreciation classes (thanks Mr. Mc Daniels) and I learned a lot from being in choir. I am gratified that I was recently able to visit my choir teacher and thank her in person. For the record, thanks again Mrs. May.

But a lot has changed since I got out of school and many kids are not getting even a fraction of the exposure to music that I was privileged to experience. Then there are the relative handful of kids whom take to music like a fish to water, but may not have opportunities to interact with other children that comprehend music at the same level. I remember being frustrated, at times, and wishing I could hear my guitar teacher play live and/or meet other musicians my age who were into more than just the songs getting airplay on the local Top 40 station.

Meeting musicians used to be easy. Go hang out at the music store and whomever walked in was probably musically inclined. Unfortunately, the neighborhood music store is an endangered species, so this avenue of introduction is no longer easy to come by.

How could children be given access to real music?

I wish I had answers for this one. Actually, I can think of several answers, but financing such ideas and making them financially viable may be another matter altogether. I’ve often dreamed of having a music venue, near a large city, but remote enough to be cost effective to operate.

I can think of one example, a rustic dinner theater west of Tucson that served a chuck wagon dinner for a reasonable price and featured the Sons of the Pioneers as entertainment. Children could come with their parents and see a pretty decent show. But the facilities were very simple, basically bench seating and mess hall style tables. The building was rustic and, I believe, was only operated during the winter months, which meant no air conditioning was needed. I only visited once, and that night they announced that they had sold the facility. I don’t have any idea what ever came of it after that.

I couldn’t even dream of being able to finance such a venture, but I’ve often thought that a simple showplace could possibly be viable if it were near a big city, booked various traveling acts, and hosted other events aimed at youngsters during the daytime hours. Perhaps musicians from the traveling acts could be persuaded to host clinics and attract people of all ages to participate.

Perhaps a better way to go would be to rent existing facilities for events and try to make music accessible to youngsters that way. Almost 16 years ago, I went to a concert by Tommy Emmanuel which was held at, IIRC, the University of Central Oklahoma in Edmund on both Saturday and Sunday evenings. On Sunday morning, Tommy conducted a clinic in a vacant auto dealer showroom in OKC and it seemed to draw enough of a crowd to be financially viable.

In the case of the concert, it came down to one promoter organizing the event. I’m not sure if that same promoter organized the clinic, but my point is that someone, somewhere, made a few phone calls and was able to make something happen. Both the concert and the clinic were great musical opportunities for young people.

Perhaps the answer comes down to the individual level. Taking time to help any young musicians we happen to meet. Everything I know about music came to me from someone more experienced. Some of the most valuable lessons I ever learned happened when an experienced musician took just a minute or two to explain something to me. Just a few minutes jamming with a younger musician at a music store might leverage itself into a significant learning experience for the student. I’ve done this a few times myself and sometimes these kids will surprise you with how fast they pick up on music.

This can be powerful. I mentioned a friend who listened to Johnny Smith play guitar in an alley behind a nightclub in downtown Denver. Johnny was an established musician at the time, the composer of Walk, Don’t Run, and had a Gibson signature model made to his specifications, but he took the time to talk to a young musician and helped to set in motion a series of events. From that introduction, my friend became a student of Johnny’s, later became a teacher with a huge student load and went on to a career both as a performer, and also as a music store owner. He also is a manufacturer’s rep and distributor for a prestigious line of equipment. This same friend remained friends with Smith for the rest of Smith’s life, and after Johnny’s passing, he ended up both inheriting Johnny’s music memorabilia, and became the owner of Johnny’s Epiphone Triumph.

Being exposed to real music and the people whom play it can be a life changing event for a musically gifted person. It’s just unfortunate that a young musician might have to stand in a dark alley in order to gain exposure to live music.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

My new badass drummer is a children’s music therapist. Something I didn’t know existed. He teaches music and jams with “troubled” kids.

When I was a youth they had all-ages clubs. Some of them even had a drinking section. Those were the clubs where the cool music was. I’ve had similar thoughts about opening an all-ages venue for non-commercial music and outsider art. Maybe someday.

My dad played 5-string bluegrass banjo and as a kid I’d witness that big acoustic sound. Drums, fiddle, mandolin, guitar, bass and banjo. He told a story about how they had a practice in our living room and I was so excited I yelled “There’s a SHOW in our house!” You’re so right about kids and music.

We had a holiday party and the kids dancing to the funk band was the best part.

By the way what blew my mind on the other thread was what you said about big bands needing to be big and how amps changed everything. I never thought about it like that.

Daniel Deathtide

Last edited: Jan 27, 2019 21:28:58

DeathTide wrote:

My new badass drummer is a children’s music therapist. Something I didn’t know existed. He teaches music and jams with “troubled” kids.

When I was a youth they had all-ages clubs. Some of them even had a drinking section. Those were the clubs where the cool music was. I’ve had similar thoughts about opening an all-ages venue for non-commercial music and outsider art. Maybe someday.

My dad played 5-string bluegrass banjo and as a kid I’d witness that big acoustic sound. Drums, fiddle, mandolin, guitar, bass and banjo. He told a story about how they had a practice in our living room and I was so excited I yelled “There’s a SHOW in our house!” You’re so right about kids and music.

We had a holiday party and the kids dancing to the funk band was the best part.

By the way what blew my mind on the other thread was what you said about big bands needing to be big and how amps changed everything. I never thought about it like that.

Music is powerful stuff and I know that it can be used therapeutically. Alzheimer’s patients are helped by being exposed to music from their younger years. With that in mind, I think that the musical experiences of children are important. I’m blessed with a good memory, and can literally remember certain, very specific, events; like the first time I saw a guitar in person, the time I saw a young medical intern playing guitar out on the front step of a rooming house with several admiring student nurses gathered around and, most importantly, the first time I heard El Paso and the wonderful guitar work of Grady Martin. I would venture that all of these things happened before I was five years old and they have stuck with me ever since. Had they not happened, would I have gone a different direction in life?

I think that children deserve a better musical experience that they will get just watching TV and movies. They need to be introduced to different sorts of music so that they can choose for themselves. As a child, I would just about wriggle out of my skin with joy when I heard Jazz. We need to do better by children, when it comes to musical experience.

All age clubs sound like a good idea, so long as everything is kept under control. Honestly, I think family entertainment is even better. A place where families can gather, be entertained and where parents and children can share musical experiences.

I’ll risk a diversion here, with regard to volume, etc. music has always been shaped by the technology used for making music. PAs made Big Bands obsolete and the Fender bass changed the world. There’s a book by that name and I agree with the title.

This also ties back to the subject of this thread, because many of the music programs that still exist in the schools find themselves mired in the requirements of days long gone. There’s nothing wrong with traditional Band, Orchestra and Choir classes, but I think that we have to acknowledge that large ensembles are not the only way to fill a rom with music.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I actually make my living playing music for kids. AND I manage to sneak in a link wray tune here or there. If you want to tailor a show to kids, a couple things to consider are volume and flow. I play solo and with a band, the band only plays outdoor or big theater gigs because it's too easy to get too loud. For little kids, I think you really need to keep the volume down to "able to talk over it" levels. (though you'll see babies wearing hearing protectors!)

The flow thing takes a while to learn--kids can lose interest REALLY fast in things, so giving them stuff to latch onto can help. I've never done an all instrumental gig for kids, but could imagine trying to talk up elements of a tune ("what does this sound like to you?").

but you'll never find a more appreciative audience!

here's a little solo number:

Matt Heaton & the Electric Heaters
"Dick Dale meets Dennis Lehane"
http://www.heatonsurf.com

Great topic for discussion. In my experience, there are a number of cities that hold outdoor concerts in their parks, mostly in the warmer months. In some places, these are really popular and lots of families bring their kids. And these are usually local bands that do not just do popular stuff - you get a big variety of styles like Cajun, Swing, Blues, Classic Rock. Not quite on the scale of having a regular club, but these public things are usually free, which makes it easy for families to just drop in and see what's playing.

matt wrote:

I actually make my living playing music for kids. AND I manage to sneak in a link wray tune here or there. If you want to tailor a show to kids, a couple things to consider are volume and flow. I play solo and with a band, the band only plays outdoor or big theater gigs because it's too easy to get too loud. For little kids, I think you really need to keep the volume down to "able to talk over it" levels. (though you'll see babies wearing hearing protectors!)

The flow thing takes a while to learn--kids can lose interest REALLY fast in things, so giving them stuff to latch onto can help. I've never done an all instrumental gig for kids, but could imagine trying to talk up elements of a tune ("what does this sound like to you?").

but you'll never find a more appreciative audience!

here's a little solo number:

That's great stuff and it looks like the kids are sure enjoying it.

Th point of attention span is well taken; you can't expect children to sit quietly for an entire concert.

Most of our gigs are outdoors. We play the Pima County Fair most springs and we have played community events and car shows over the years. One common denominator is that these are kid friendly venues and they also offer plenty of distraction when the kids tire of listening to music.

edwardsand wrote:

Great topic for discussion. In my experience, there are a number of cities that hold outdoor concerts in their parks, mostly in the warmer months. In some places, these are really popular and lots of families bring their kids. And these are usually local bands that do not just do popular stuff - you get a big variety of styles like Cajun, Swing, Blues, Classic Rock. Not quite on the scale of having a regular club, but these public things are usually free, which makes it easy for families to just drop in and see what's playing.

One great way to introduce new music to kids is to volunteer for community events, free concerts and the like. I really have had some great experiences at community events.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

I owned a successful music lesson center for almost 10 years 2003-2012. When I started the business as a guitar player offering music lessons of all types and on most major instruments from a staff of instructors, the Guitar Hero games were becoming very popular. Guitar was a staple lesson, followed by drums and piano. Over the years I saw a rapid decline in the interest for guitar while voice became a predominant area for lessons. A couple of reasons, kids did not want to devote the time and patience to learn the guitar. The guitar is no longer the main instruments on which a lot of popular music is composed and performed. How frustrating a lesson when a kid wants to learn Imagine Dragon on guitar, "I was like, there isn't any guitar in this song!" Kids think that if they take voice they do not have to practice and all parents pretty much think their child has the voice of an angel. I know like Matt says that kids can appreciate when you can arrange a performance for them, but there is a lot of discipline lacking and a lot of distractions that prevents them from picking up a guitar.

vanemeth wrote:

I owned a successful music lesson center for almost 10 years 2003-2012. When I started the business as a guitar player offering music lessons of all types and on most major instruments from a staff of instructors, the Guitar Hero games were becoming very popular. Guitar was a staple lesson, followed by drums and piano. Over the years I saw a rapid decline in the interest for guitar while voice became a predominant area for lessons. A couple of reasons, kids did not want to devote the time and patience to learn the guitar. The guitar is no longer the main instruments on which a lot of popular music is composed and performed. How frustrating a lesson when a kid wants to learn Imagine Dragon on guitar, "I was like, there isn't any guitar in this song!" Kids think that if they take voice they do not have to practice and all parents pretty much think their child has the voice of an angel. I know like Matt says that kids can appreciate when you can arrange a performance for them, but there is a lot of discipline lacking and a lot of distractions that prevents them from picking up a guitar.

It’s been a long time since I taught for a living, but I’ve heard that it’s changed drastically and that there are fewer kids putting forth the effort to learn than there used to be. Sometimes I fear that it will become a world of drum loops and synth sequences.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

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