Surf Rider

nightsurfer

Joined: Jun 21, 2017
Posts: 12
Bristol,CT
United States

Posted on Jan 14 2019 08:06 AM

Has anyone noticed that the way the ventures played "Surf Rider/Spudnik" originally, and the way they played it in later years has a significant difference? Namely, the walkdown into the B part. Both the Ventures and the Lively Ones play a C# on the early recordings. Later on , The Ventures started playing a C natural. Both Nokie and Gerry can be seen doing this. I personally prefer the original way. How do most of you guys play it, and why? Any guesses as to why Nokie changed it?

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Redfeather

Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 854
3 Download Pins

Posted on Jan 14 2019 01:54 PM

I'm trying to figure out which part you mean. Is the B part the A7-D7-G7-C7-(E7?) part? Can you post a link with a time reference?

I've been listening to recordings of it but no C# has jumped out at me. It seems like it would be really obvious.

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nightsurfer

Joined: Jun 21, 2017
Posts: 12
Bristol,CT
United States

Posted on Jan 14 2019 02:11 PM

Hi Redfeather. The C# I am referring to is not a chord, but a scale tone during the walk down to the first A minor after the initial riff.

Here are The Ventures from The Surfing album. The walkdown starts about 14 seconds in. E D C# B A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soUdI9wynm4

Here is Nokie later in life. E D C B A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifakzy3coBI

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Redfeather

Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 854
3 Download Pins

Posted on Jan 14 2019 02:30 PM

I'll be DAMNED. I've never even noticed that's a C#! I've always played a C there.

It does makes more musical sense to play a C natural, though, since that is the proper third of the Amin it's leading into. But then the song does modulate between minor and major from this part to the part I referenced above, so it seems like either way is defensible. And hey, if the crowd is composed of dunces like me, they'll never know the difference anyway!

Here's an instance of the major version where it does reflect the major key of the song.

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DeathTide

Joined: Apr 13, 2018
Posts: 1340
New Orleans
United States

Posted on Jan 14 2019 03:47 PM

Amazing catch! I kinda like the regular C better...

—

Daniel Deathtide

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nightsurfer

Joined: Jun 21, 2017
Posts: 12
Bristol,CT
United States

Posted on Jan 14 2019 04:18 PM

Yeah it's kinda weird. But it works nicely. I think a lot of people play Am on that opening riff. But I hear A7. 7's all the way down to E7. And the C# is party of the E7(mixolydian) scale so it works. Once it hits the A note it then becomes an Am. When it gets to the 3rd part, that A becomes a 7th again. It really is a great tune.

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Redfeather

Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 854
3 Download Pins

Posted on Jan 14 2019 08:26 PM

Man, thanks for bringing this up. It's great to really look at these things like this. I have a new appreciation for that middle part with all the 7s, the way it forms a complete cycle. Earlier I wasn't sure about that last chord being an E7 but yes, of course it is. The 5 resolving back to the 1 (except it's a minor.) But you could play that 7s part all day long in an endless loop!

Another thing I noticed: the main part is the same chord progression as Mr. Moto!

Last edited: Jan 14, 2019 20:27:58

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Squid

Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 1013
Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers
18 News Pins

Posted on Jan 14 2019 09:13 PM

The second time Nokie plays the intro riff, about 60% through the song, he just holds E. No walk down, no run down, nothing down.

—

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

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stratdancer

Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2532
Akron, Ohio
United States

Posted on Jan 15 2019 05:12 AM

I've always played it in C# but who cares, it's a fantastic song. What makes it is tempo. The faster you play it the better it is. We try to take it a little faster than the lively ones version. There is so much movement in the song and especially the bass line. The faster you push those elements the more they come out.

—

The Kahuna Kings

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447

https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases

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nightsurfer

Joined: Jun 21, 2017
Posts: 12
Bristol,CT
United States

Posted on Jan 15 2019 05:31 AM

Squid wrote:

The second time Nokie plays the intro riff, about 60% through the song, he just holds E. No walk down, no run down, nothing down.

Totally true. In fact I've heard people play the whole thing without a walk down at all.

Last edited: Jan 15, 2019 05:38:22

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nightsurfer

Joined: Jun 21, 2017
Posts: 12
Bristol,CT
United States

Posted on Jan 15 2019 05:34 AM

Redfeather wrote:

Man, thanks for bringing this up. It's great to really look at these things like this. I have a new appreciation for that middle part with all the 7s, the way it forms a complete cycle. Earlier I wasn't sure about that last chord being an E7 but yes, of course it is. The 5 resolving back to the 1 (except it's a minor.) But you could play that 7s part all day long in an endless loop!

Another thing I noticed: the main part is the same chord progression as Mr. Moto!

I'm glad people appreciate this stuff. It's a passion of mine. Going deep you find a lot of curious stuff. Like Wipeout for instance. The Surfaris did it in B. But just about everyone else, including The Ventures, does it in C. Probably BECAUSE the Ventures did it in C. It totally is the same as Mr. Moto. I think chord progressions were a dime a dozen in the 60's

Last edited: Jan 15, 2019 05:37:47

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nightsurfer

Joined: Jun 21, 2017
Posts: 12
Bristol,CT
United States

Posted on Jan 15 2019 05:35 AM

stratdancer wrote:

I've always played it in C# but who cares, it's a fantastic song. What makes it is tempo. The faster you play it the better it is. We try to take it a little faster than the lively ones version. There is so much movement in the song and especially the bass line. The faster you push those elements the more they come out.

I agree. I like it med-fast. The B part needs to breath a little. Such a fun tune.

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nightsurfer Joined: Jun 21, 2017 Posts: 12 Bristol,CT	Posted on Jan 14 2019 08:06 AM Has anyone noticed that the way the ventures played "Surf Rider/Spudnik" originally, and the way they played it in later years has a significant difference? Namely, the walkdown into the B part. Both the Ventures and the Lively Ones play a C# on the early recordings. Later on , The Ventures started playing a C natural. Both Nokie and Gerry can be seen doing this. I personally prefer the original way. How do most of you guys play it, and why? Any guesses as to why Nokie changed it? Top
Redfeather Joined: Jul 30, 2016 Posts: 854	Posted on Jan 14 2019 01:54 PM I'm trying to figure out which part you mean. Is the B part the A7-D7-G7-C7-(E7?) part? Can you post a link with a time reference? I've been listening to recordings of it but no C# has jumped out at me. It seems like it would be really obvious. Top
nightsurfer Joined: Jun 21, 2017 Posts: 12 Bristol,CT	Posted on Jan 14 2019 02:11 PM Hi Redfeather. The C# I am referring to is not a chord, but a scale tone during the walk down to the first A minor after the initial riff. Here are The Ventures from The Surfing album. The walkdown starts about 14 seconds in. E D C# B A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soUdI9wynm4 Here is Nokie later in life. E D C B A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifakzy3coBI Top
Redfeather Joined: Jul 30, 2016 Posts: 854	Posted on Jan 14 2019 02:30 PM I'll be DAMNED. I've never even noticed that's a C#! I've always played a C there. It does makes more musical sense to play a C natural, though, since that is the proper third of the Amin it's leading into. But then the song does modulate between minor and major from this part to the part I referenced above, so it seems like either way is defensible. And hey, if the crowd is composed of dunces like me, they'll never know the difference anyway! Here's an instance of the major version where it does reflect the major key of the song. Top
DeathTide Joined: Apr 13, 2018 Posts: 1340 New Orleans	Posted on Jan 14 2019 03:47 PM Amazing catch! I kinda like the regular C better... — Daniel Deathtide Top
nightsurfer Joined: Jun 21, 2017 Posts: 12 Bristol,CT	Posted on Jan 14 2019 04:18 PM Yeah it's kinda weird. But it works nicely. I think a lot of people play Am on that opening riff. But I hear A7. 7's all the way down to E7. And the C# is party of the E7(mixolydian) scale so it works. Once it hits the A note it then becomes an Am. When it gets to the 3rd part, that A becomes a 7th again. It really is a great tune. Top
Redfeather Joined: Jul 30, 2016 Posts: 854	Posted on Jan 14 2019 08:26 PM Man, thanks for bringing this up. It's great to really look at these things like this. I have a new appreciation for that middle part with all the 7s, the way it forms a complete cycle. Earlier I wasn't sure about that last chord being an E7 but yes, of course it is. The 5 resolving back to the 1 (except it's a minor.) But you could play that 7s part all day long in an endless loop! Another thing I noticed: the main part is the same chord progression as Mr. Moto! Last edited: Jan 14, 2019 20:27:58 Top
Squid Joined: Aug 22, 2010 Posts: 1013 Portland, Oregon with Insanitizers	Posted on Jan 14 2019 09:13 PM The second time Nokie plays the intro riff, about 60% through the song, he just holds E. No walk down, no run down, nothing down. — Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com Top
stratdancer Joined: Dec 11, 2013 Posts: 2532 Akron, Ohio	Posted on Jan 15 2019 05:12 AM I've always played it in C# but who cares, it's a fantastic song. What makes it is tempo. The faster you play it the better it is. We try to take it a little faster than the lively ones version. There is so much movement in the song and especially the bass line. The faster you push those elements the more they come out. — The Kahuna Kings https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447 https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases Top
nightsurfer Joined: Jun 21, 2017 Posts: 12 Bristol,CT	Posted on Jan 15 2019 05:31 AM Squid wrote: The second time Nokie plays the intro riff, about 60% through the song, he just holds E. No walk down, no run down, nothing down. Totally true. In fact I've heard people play the whole thing without a walk down at all. Last edited: Jan 15, 2019 05:38:22 Top
nightsurfer Joined: Jun 21, 2017 Posts: 12 Bristol,CT	Posted on Jan 15 2019 05:34 AM Redfeather wrote: Man, thanks for bringing this up. It's great to really look at these things like this. I have a new appreciation for that middle part with all the 7s, the way it forms a complete cycle. Earlier I wasn't sure about that last chord being an E7 but yes, of course it is. The 5 resolving back to the 1 (except it's a minor.) But you could play that 7s part all day long in an endless loop! Another thing I noticed: the main part is the same chord progression as Mr. Moto! I'm glad people appreciate this stuff. It's a passion of mine. Going deep you find a lot of curious stuff. Like Wipeout for instance. The Surfaris did it in B. But just about everyone else, including The Ventures, does it in C. Probably BECAUSE the Ventures did it in C. It totally is the same as Mr. Moto. I think chord progressions were a dime a dozen in the 60's Last edited: Jan 15, 2019 05:37:47 Top
nightsurfer Joined: Jun 21, 2017 Posts: 12 Bristol,CT	Posted on Jan 15 2019 05:35 AM stratdancer wrote: I've always played it in C# but who cares, it's a fantastic song. What makes it is tempo. The faster you play it the better it is. We try to take it a little faster than the lively ones version. There is so much movement in the song and especially the bass line. The faster you push those elements the more they come out. I agree. I like it med-fast. The B part needs to breath a little. Such a fun tune. Top

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Surf Rider