stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2532
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Aug 19 2018 07:30 PM
Yesterday we played a huge festival spread out over a few square mile area in Akron Ohio. Incredible event! Our venue was a huge patio between a bar and a restaurant right on the main drag. We didn't have pa or monitors so it was all bandmasters. I played through my blonde modified 67 with 2 15's and I let Earl play through my 63 with 2 D120's. The 63 broke up fast on 5 and really couldn't go much further as far as headroom was concerned. Is it normal for these to fart out a bit in an open air environment or should I be concerned about the re-coned d120's?
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
Workweak
Joined: May 28, 2017
Posts: 9
Burlington, VT
|
Posted on Aug 20 2018 07:42 AM
Huh... I sort of feel like the early/mid 60s stuff tops out on headroom around 5 anyways. The silver face stuff seems to have a little more room, but when I had a 64 Bassman it just got more distorted after 5. I wouldn’t rush to blame the speakers.
— Guitarist for Wolfhand and The Donner Beach Party.
|
thomasd
Joined: Aug 17, 2012
Posts: 94
Eugene, Oregon
|
Posted on Aug 20 2018 09:23 AM
Interesting you should mention this. I had the same experience with my 61 Bandmaster at an outdoor gig in PDX. Mine has a single 12 and I thought maybe the speaker was farting out with the amp right at 5. Planned to setup in my garage today and check to see if the speaker is going south. Also going to open the cab to see if the speaker is getting loose.
— Rock
A Man from S.U.R.F.
http://menfromsurf.com
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2532
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Aug 20 2018 04:12 PM
I might be switching my 63 to a bassman tranny for more headroom. Also, I had Earl plugged into the trem side which may have killed headroom. Next time I'll have him plug into the normal channel next time we do an outdoor with no pa. He also ordered a quilter for the loud gigs as he normally runs a Dr Z.
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
Last edited: Aug 20, 2018 16:13:28
|
thomasd
Joined: Aug 17, 2012
Posts: 94
Eugene, Oregon
|
Posted on Aug 20 2018 07:19 PM
Kinda wondered about the transformer too. Mine is original. I'll have a chat with my amp guy about a more robust tranny.
— Rock
A Man from S.U.R.F.
http://menfromsurf.com
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2532
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Aug 20 2018 08:11 PM
There is a thread floating around here about doing the mod. Most here have put a Mercury Magnetics Bassman transformer in their Bandmasters. I used a Classictone in my blackface because the MM was 200 bucks! My 63 has a Classictone in it but it's just another Bandmaster tranny.
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11010
Berkeley, CA
|
Posted on Aug 20 2018 08:18 PM
In my experience you'll normally get break up on 5 especially if you're pushing it with a pedal. Best solution is to get a PA and mic the amps. 2nd best is use larger amp or 2 amps.
— Danny Snyder
Latest project - Now That's What I Call SURF
_
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I'm back playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
|
WaimeaBay
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 966
|
Posted on Aug 20 2018 09:17 PM
Congrats on the gig, Looks like it was a blast.
That is the normal breakup point for any bandmaster i've played. 6 would be max. Really you would need a Showman, or Twin Reverb for more clean head room at higher volumes. Take the others advice, mic it when necessary. Obviously that causes it's own logistic problems though. If not, get a variety of amps 
Showman or Twin for the biggest venues.
Vibroverb, Bandmaster, Bassman, Super Reverb for midsize.
Deluxe reverb or Princeton Reverb for small venues / recording.
These are just my suggestions of course
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2532
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Aug 21 2018 05:28 AM
Thanks for everyone's insight. When we first soundchecked I was a bit miffed. We had played an outdoor show the weekend before in Columbus but the stage was up against a brick building. The sound projection was huge and although there was a pa I really didn't need any monitor. A video was shot and the woman that shot the vid walked up and shot 3 songs then walked down the street shooting all that was going on. throughout the street the sound was pretty good and the notes rang clear. Could still make it out almost two blocks away! We have another outdoor gig this weekend but full pa.
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1344
Memphis, TN
|
Posted on Aug 21 2018 05:11 PM
I must have gotten lucky because I crank my Bandmaster loud when we play and it doesn't break up until 7.5-8ish. I do need to roll the treble back the higher the volume gets because the high E can sound a little distorted, but the amp doesn't break up at 5 or 6.
It's a '65 Bandmaster going into a 1x12, 4 ohm, Eminence 150 watt speaker. The cabinets were made by Peter Mather. I used to have a RI '65 Deluxe that started breaking up at 4!
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
Last edited: Aug 21, 2018 17:12:17
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2532
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Aug 21 2018 07:32 PM
|
Redfeather
Joined: Jul 30, 2016
Posts: 854
|
Posted on Aug 22 2018 03:24 AM
When I played a brownface Bassman for the first time I was surprised by how early it broke up. 5 was where it started getting crunchy.
|
thomasd
Joined: Aug 17, 2012
Posts: 94
Eugene, Oregon
|
Posted on Aug 23 2018 03:25 PM
Dropped my 61 Bandmaster with my amp guy today. He's going to install a Bassman transformer and a couple of other mods that will give the amp more headroom. Seems that the 6L6's I installed about a year ago are going bad.
Those will get replaced as well.
I'll report back the results when the work is done.
FWIW, I played an outdoor show last night and the amp was puking out at 5.
— Rock
A Man from S.U.R.F.
http://menfromsurf.com
|
DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11010
Berkeley, CA
|
Posted on Aug 23 2018 05:59 PM
Amp(Speaker) placement is critical. If you're depending on your own ears to adjust your stage volume and you're close to your speaker, you may not be getting an accurate take on the volume the audience is hearing. Often this results in turning an amp up too high and thus the accompanying distortion. 2x15's move a lot of air, it may sound much louder in the audience. It's always good to get objective opinions either from sound man (I know, often they're less than ideal) or a trusted person in the audience.
— Danny Snyder
Latest project - Now That's What I Call SURF
_
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I'm back playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
|
SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1344
Memphis, TN
|
Posted on Aug 24 2018 08:36 AM
stratdancer wrote:
Sounds like that Eminence is kicking butt!
It must be! We practiced for two hours last night, I had my Bandmaster on 7-7.5 in slot one of the vibrato channel and it sounded sweet! I was playing lead when I had it cranked, maybe if I was playing rhythm it would break up a little? Anyway, I read that the normal channel has more headroom than the vibrato, is this true? If so, I’ll try the normal channel out sometime. I couldn’t be happier my Bandmaster!
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2532
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Aug 26 2018 04:08 AM
Another outdoor gig yesterday and I ran my Blackface modified to Brownface with the bassman transformer. 2, 15's once again. We were up against a brick wall and the sound was fantastic. At some point I will spring for a bassman transformer for the 63.
Another trick I need to do for the 63 is the tremolo kill switch which cuts the circuit altogether and increases headroom in both channels if I am correct. I have the tube pulled in my Blackface but when it comes to the 63 you want that available.
— The Kahuna Kings
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Kahuna-Kings/459752090818447
https://thekahunakings.bandcamp.com/releases
|
thomasd
Joined: Aug 17, 2012
Posts: 94
Eugene, Oregon
|
Posted on Sep 06 2018 10:05 AM
Update to the 61 Bandmaster work; Bassman transformer installed, new 6L6's.
The amp is pumping out 60+ watts, sounds way louder, very punchy. I've got two outdoor gigs this weekend so that is where the rubber meets the road.
More (if anything) as I know it.
— Rock
A Man from S.U.R.F.
http://menfromsurf.com
|
stratdancer
Joined: Dec 11, 2013
Posts: 2532
Akron, Ohio
|
Posted on Sep 06 2018 05:15 PM
|
thomasd
Joined: Aug 17, 2012
Posts: 94
Eugene, Oregon
|
Posted on Sep 10 2018 10:05 AM
After two outdoor gigs over the weekend I can really hear the difference since the transformer upgrade. The band also noticed. Way more bottom end
and the amp held it's own even in direct sunlight on a hot day. So, very happy with the work, highly recommend if anyone considers the transformer
change. 
— Rock
A Man from S.U.R.F.
http://menfromsurf.com
|
SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1344
Memphis, TN
|
Posted on Sep 14 2018 05:53 PM
Well darn, played outdoors last night and had the '65 Bandmaster cranked to 7ish, and it started to break up. I was plugged into the normal channel, slot one. Oh well, I guess if I want cleaner headroom I will need a Showman!
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
|
April Birthdays 
