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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Recording Corner »

Permalink Surf Guitar with Virtual Instruments

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Since my band split up a few weeks ago, I would like to record a 8 or 9 track EP, doing it in home recording. I usually play drums and I can play a little guitar. I contributed some songs to the band that I would like to record on my own now.

I have most of the tools, including Apple Logic 10 as a DAW, Superior Drummer as a drum plugin and an audio interface to record guitar and bass guitar. I have a Fender USA fat strat (2001 model I think, with two single coils and a seymour and duncan humbucker). My bass guitar was real cheap, but should do for the EP.

I have almost programmed all the midi drums, still looking for a good drum library for surf (currently going with SDX, Independent, Sonor 60s drum set).

But I don't really have a clue about how to create the right surf sound on a guitar. My songs are more garage surf I guess, kind of sinister, style e.g. comparable to dick dale's miserly. Partly I play Spaghetti Western style.

My questions:

  • What pick up should I use to record my guitar? Front, middle single coil or humbucker?

  • Can you recommend a virtual guitar amp for surf?
    I considered "Scuffham", "Guitar Rig" from native or "GTR3" from Waves.

  • How should I preset the virtual amps to get a garage type of surf style?
    I never really played on a real amp, at least never got familiar with any settings.

  • Do I need different effects, e.g. a distortion? Or do surf guys usually play the same sound through all songs on an album?

thx!

I bought Amplitube Fender with several Fender Amps and Cabinets as well as a 63 Reverb Stomp.

You have Logic, no need to buy any other plug ins. Use the brown face Fender amp and use the spring reverb stomp box on vintage setting.

I like the 4x10 cabinet with it, and with the ribbon mic.

Preset based on your ears. Or just don't touch it at all unless you feel like you know what the knobs do.

Use whatever pickup you want!

My best advice, unless these are just for fun/experience, hold off on recording until you can answer the question about what pickups and what amp settings you want to use.

There are good surf rock tones to be had in the Logic native plugins. I've recorded some demos using only that and quite honestly been chasing an equally good tone with my real gear (which is entry level, to be sure) since then. You can do as Jake suggested and just use any of their Fender style amp setups and the spring reverb pedal. I've also tried out using one amp sim in front of another (with the cab/mic bypassed) as a makeshift outboard unit. Their surf preset isn't bad either, though a bit wet for my taste. You can always start with a preset and change things around to taste.

I've been playing with Peavey Revalver 4 for a while, it's excellent!
Very responsive and realistic, and even allows you to tweak the schematics to some extent.

BTW, still, IMHO, the Amplitube Fender has one of the better spring reverb simulations.

But whatever platform you use, aim for the cleaner, bigger simulated amps.
Most importantly: watch your levels!
At the input to the converter, your guitar signal has to be strong and clean. If you have metering, play hard until the red flashes and then backoff a bit. And a lil' bit more. Same with the amp-sim's input levels. Only then, start tweaking the amps and fx.

And I gotta say, with a real external reverb unit, these virtual amps are a whole different story! The richness of an analog unit before, almost compensates for the downsides of digital.

And it all comes together with good monitoring. Have good monitors, the bigger the better.

Last edited: Sep 26, 2016 12:44:15

I have amplitube 3 & 4 and all their packs but rarely use them . I find I get better results with Scuffham X gear , and also Positive grids BIAS Pro than I do with Amplitube.., reason .., I just find them better products and more life like and seem to be more 3D

If I am too lazy to reamp my guitar DI sound to a real amp or my real reverb tank .., my go-to spring reverb (over IKM amplitube etc) is Springbox by PSP plugins.
A great experimental Reverb I like is Blackhole , by Evantide.

.., another V.I tip is to purchase I.R's (ie; impulse responses) from a 3rd party company that specializes in them .., they are soooooo much better than what is provided within the various amp sims. heres some links :
http://www.3sigmaaudio.com/shop/

http://www.rosendigitalaudio.com/impulse-responses/

http://www.ownhammer.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=169&products_id=379

Professionally recorded Drum Midi is hard to find and virtually non existent ..., and when you weed through other packs looking for them is also very limiting ..., I have been sending emails to 2 manufactures who sound slightly interested asking for a dedicated surf drums MIDI library (and a dedicated rockabilly swing MIDI drums library) .., these companies that seem a bit interested are Platinum samples , and groove Monkee
link;
https://www.platinumsamples.com
https://groovemonkee.com/ .., another is Toontrack

Please guys .., send an email to these companies and request they make a dedicated surf drums MIDI library .., the noisy wheel gets the oil (so to speak) Yes

Last edited: Nov 20, 2016 22:44:52

SlippyFingers wrote:

  • Do I need different effects, e.g. a distortion? Or do surf guys usually play the same sound through all songs on an album?

thx!

hi SF .., remember .., most important is there are NO rules so don't dare cramp your creativity by trying to impose any rules or guidelines .., experiment and break boundaries .

Whatever sounds good IS GOOD !

ie; do what you want ,
..., Yes be influenced by others and borrow things from others sure , but be original and try to create something unique to you.

Last edited: Nov 20, 2016 22:53:20

Levis_Original_Music_101 wrote:

SlippyFingers wrote:

  • Do I need different effects, e.g. a distortion? Or do surf guys usually play the same sound through all songs on an album?

thx!

hi SF .., remember .., most important is there are NO rules so don't dare cramp your creativity by trying to impose any rules or guidelines .., experiment and break boundaries .

Whatever sounds good IS GOOD !

ie; do what you want ,
..., Yes be influenced by others and borrow things from others sure , but be original and try to create something unique to you.

What Levis said...

Dive in and start recording. You will need to find yourself and only you can take that journey. Much of music creating is serendipity.

It's an accident for the most part.

Learn to identify those.

You will have to learn about the recording process as well as your abilities.

If anything you will see from playback where you are and what you did well and what you did not. We all go through that.

Start with a sound that pleases you on your guitar as that will give you the inspiration. No matter what plugins you have you will need to go through the catalog of trial and error.

Remember those plugin presets can be edited and tweaked later on.

Get the parts down is key.

Then when it comes time to mix that's another ball of wax but if you pay attention to what something sounds like and think in context of a final mix as you lay down the tracks, (you have to multi-task engineer, musician, producer at the SAME TIME) you will teach yourself what is needed, what it takes.

You are creating your music, and no one else's.

Seems like a lot of good advice in this thread. Thanks.

Is most of the VI recording just for demos? Or just getting ideas/arrangements down? Or do you guys record final products like that?

I have many parts of songs written. Most are not recorded at all (a couple I have as audio notes on my phone). Maybe if I can get them into a DAW it will be easier to finish them.

I have Garage Band. There’s a current deal for Reason for 99$ if you have ever registered any of their Reason Essentials versions (which I have). That price is tempting

josheboy wrote:

I have Garage Band. There’s a current deal for Reason for 99$ if you have ever registered any of their Reason Essentials versions (which I have). That price is tempting

Don't. It's basically a fancy MIDI sequencer. If you wanna make electro, it's a nice toy, but there are better. I'm assuming the intent is to record and mix surf music or something in the realm. Reason's audio tools are inferior, and won't provide you with anything over Garage-Band beside redundant fx, heavy CPU usage, and non-industry standard protocols.

Get REAPER (fully functional 60-day evaluation, after that only a nag message. $60 for non-pro's.)
and it will cover all your audio needs from here to Mars (MIDI to the Moon, if needed for drum sequencing and stuff.)
It's light, powerful, fast (important for those with older systems), compatible with anything and everything, flexible, extremely customizable and support is second to none in the world of DAW's. The enormous, built in, top quality FX library should provide everything you need.
It's a software one is able to grow with, can be as simple or complicated as you want to handle.

For free you can try Audacity

Last edited: Mar 26, 2018 09:41:46

Ariel wrote: Get REAPER

Reaper is a powerful very usable system. I have it as well and as mentioned it's not free but bang for $60 which is dirt cheap for all that it offers.

Also have Audacity. Both these live on a laptop.

I use both to tweak tracks from a Pro Tools HD3 rig.

Some may find Reaper hard to navigate but with enough practice it can be mastered.

It has many free powerful plugins you won't find anywhere else.

That said, a DAW should be something the user finds easy to use.

Any good DAW has its learning curve. Some are steeper than others and YMMV.

You have to keep exercising with it as things have a way of slipping the mind if not.

Last edited: Mar 26, 2018 16:48:53

Hey SF

Use your ears for pick-up choice - as suggested above experiment and go with a sound that you like that fits the part.

The amp modelling plug-in that comes with Logic Pro X has some really good pre-sets - if fact if you have a look through them I think you will find one call Surf - its very clean traditional blackface fender sound, but if you want to give it more of a garage feel you could try using one of the fuzz pedals from the pedal board plug-in to dirty it up a bit or make it a bit more edgy.

Good luck and have fun.

https://www.facebook.com/thebigswelldrifters/
https://thebigswelldrifters.bandcamp.com
https://soundcloud.com/thebigswelldrifters
https://www.reverbnation.com/thebigswelldrifters1

Fyi Cakewalk is now free.
I'm perfectly happy with Reaper, but here's another very capable DAW.
Actually was the only way for a while to control those MIDI boxes with my Atari ST-1040... Since, it has been through the rounds.
Thing is, (productive) people tend choose a program and stick with it, especially the complicated ones. They'd look for some sense of reliability, support, established user base and continuous development, otherwise they're not likely to invest in learning new work habits. After all the ups and downs Cakewalk has been through (latest bad phase with... Gibson), I don't know what to expect.

Last edited: Apr 14, 2018 12:46:18

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