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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Musician »

Permalink Finding Band Members (Rant)

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I only dabble in surf music.

But I'd love to put together a Surf/Spy/Spaghetti/Sixties instro band (with tunes from the late 50s as well).

But finding competent players to play any of this stuff - let alone who are familiar with it - is impossible in my area.

I also have this problem with "rock" or "pop" bands.

It's an ongoing nightmare.

There are very few people out there who have any desire to set goals for a band and achieve them. None of them knows what it means to be a "professional".

Almost all bands put together a set list (usually compiled of songs that all the members know or a majority of the members know) and start gigging and never change the list.

The band just goes until everyone either gets tired of rehearsing without gigging, tired of gigging the same old clubs for the same old people with the same old songs for $50 a man, or just tired of that project.

At 48 years old, I don't have time (or rather, patience) to get into any band where I have to teach the bass player their parts. I don't want to be in one more band where a singer reads the lyrics off a piece of paper (or has to have an iPad stand on their mic stand) or a guitarist is reading chords (usually the wrong ones) from a piece of paper (or iPad).

The guys in town who can play all want to do jazz, or prog, or "advanced" forms of music.

The rest of them are just hobbyists and don't know that the 3rd chord in Louie Louie is Minor.

So the "advanced" cats are bored with Pipeline because it's not Giant Steps, and the hobbyists can't even attempt Pipeline.

I'm not a bassist, vocalist, keyboardist, or drummer, but I can't find players who can play bass better than me, sing better than me, play keys better than me, or keep time better than me.

I'm not the greatest guitarist on the planet, but I'm competent and solid, and have years of experience gigging. I'm the guy that walks into rehearsal with all the songs either learned, or charted out (when there's only a week's notice).

I've played every "pop" style of music from the 50s to the present, including a little bit of jazz.

I don't know how you people do it. All I can figure is you live in an extremely populous area, and/or you're willing to tolerate all the band shenanigans (or are guilty of it yourself shame shame) and take a year to get a band gig ready.

I do a lot of sub gigs for bands and often am gig ready (though not perfect) with a week's notice. I get them through their gig.

I have come in to help a band out with less than a week's notice, come to a rehearsal that the singer insisted on and have the bass player say "he knows the songs better with 2 days practice than we do having played them for 6 months".

And that happens to me all the time. I auditioned for a band and they asked me to join after the first song. Then we played the set. Scheduled next practice - I had learned all 4 sets of their music. Get to practice, we play set 1 and 2. Then I say OK, are we doing set 3 and the rest of the band says "we haven't learned those yet". I just joined the band a week ago and I already know all 4 of your sets before you - and you've been together - what - months???

I know, I've been told I'm trying to join bands that are "beneath" me, but honestly, I just can't find anyone that's "my level" or better. If I do, they're so stuck in doing some completely non-giggable music - "We're doing a Nu Shooz tribute" or their set consists of the most obscure songs with no audience you can think of.

Now I don't think that a Surf/Spy/Spaghetti thing is necessarily any more marketable, so I haven't really pursued it.

But really, you can't even put a top 40 show band together. It's insane.

I'm so tired of beating my head against the wall. I love playing live for people. But no one wants to work at it to become good. They just want to "rehearse every wednesday" and they show up without knowing the songs.

I was in a really successful band and would love to do it still, but it was WAY too much work for too little return.

I'm willing to work hard, but not for no return. And at this point in my life, I'm even less willing to get involved with anything that doesn't have a guaranteed return on investment.

OK, Rant over. I just wanted to gripe and see if there were any sympathetic ears out there.

Last edited: Aug 07, 2016 21:48:22

I agree with you so whole-heartedly that I couldn't tell at times if I was reading what you wrote, or if my own thoughts were being magically projected onto the screen.

I wish you were in Chicagoland! We'd get a good thing going.

I find that surf music is JUST challenging enough to be out of the reach of a novice, and not quite challenging enough to appeal to musical warriors that want their audience to watch in awe of their technical prowess. It's a sad fact, because it's infinitely exciting and fulfilling to play.

Not to mention that it appeals to a lot of lead guitarists, but doesn't draw as many drummers who might prefer metal or jazz; or appeal to bassists who might prefer funk or hard rock. It's sort of the same effect in blues or country.. the backline has to be solid as a rock all night while the lead players get a real workout.

Just like when Green Day brought punk to the radio, or when Stray Cats reminded top 40 lists of rockabilly, or the Mighty Mighty Bosstones introduced a lot of young people to ska for the first time, it would be a hoot to see a surf instrumental band top the charts out of left field. Next thing you'd know, there'd be a whole pool of musicians who would be enlightened to the genre.

Wow. Great post. I really loved your first paragraph!

Thanks. I at least feel much better one post in.

Finding band members with your same outlook and interests is pretty difficult, regardless of the genre.

I mean this as a constructive criticism; you come across as very negative in that post. Was it a rant, yes. But don't ever let your frustration about people show, keep it inside of you because if it leaks out nobody is going to want to play with you. Being in a band takes a lot of courage and the last thing anybody wants is to be criticized about their musical ability as that is something most people are self-conscious about.

If I read this post and was contemplating being in a band with you, I absolutely wouldn't join due to how critical you are of other players and who self-aggrandizing you were of yourself.

Finding band members with your same outlook and interests is pretty difficult, regardless of the genre.

Exactly, I think it is easier to not tell those you are recruiting what genre you are trying to do. Give them demos, or tell them "it will be an instrumental band". For my band, I just recruited friends and let them play what they wanted. Didn't make them listen to surf, didn't make them buy certain gear, and encouraged them to give input. It shaped the band nicely, keeps them happy, and keeps us original enough.

I hear ya Steve. I'm pretty much in the same boat. I've been trying for years to get something together,but it just hasn't taken shape. Utah is a tough market for this genre. I've had quite a few people show interest, but they just continue to flake out. The secret is to just keep playing. I'm working with another guitar player right now doing covers. It's not my ultimate vision, but I'm learning tons and having a lot of fun to boot. Hang in there!

Either you surf, or you fight.

NuShooz!

http://www.satanspilgrims.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Satans-Pilgrims/8210228553
https://satanspilgrims.bandcamp.com/
http://www.surfyindustries.com

I sympathize with your plight and can relate to a degree -- It's not easy putting a band together and finding like minded musicians that you have chemistry with. Even in a densely populated area like NY it can be very difficult. I've been through hell trying to maintain my band and have been through countless members over the years. So I totally get it. However, I have to agree with Jake, you have a bad attitude about it. So here's a little tough love: You said being in a sucessful band was way too much work for too little return.

I'm willing to work hard, but not for no return. And at this point in my life, I'm even less willing to get involved with anything that doesn't have a guaranteed return on investment.

I think that's a big problem right there. You shouldn't form a band or a surf band for that matter expecting 'return'. You should do it simply for the joy of doing it and love of creating. In my case my band has been going for well over 15 years, we've released three albums, 3 singles, toured europe 3 times and done a few U.S. tours and play out regularly, yet I'm personally over $30,000 in a hole from financing a lot of it, and will probably never see that money again. We've generated quite a bit of money over the years, but it all goes right back into the band not my pocket. If I had the attitude of "I'm not bothering because there is little return" well I wouldn't even have a band at this point, or done any of the tours or recorded any of the records. All those things happened because I was monomaniacally dedicated to making them happen and never once thought of what I would get in return for my investment.
It's kind of unreasonable to have this attitude yet expect others to dedicate time out of their busy lives to practice more than once a week, learn songs, be dedicated etc... for "No guaranteed return".

Where are you searching for musicians? I think it's really helpful to hang around music stores and go to as many gigs as you can. If you go to places where musicians hang around, you're more likely to find like minded musicians. Craigslist works out sometimes, but it can be daunting too.
Hope I haven't been too harsh. All I can say is hang in there and good luck. I'm sure your future bandmates aren't too far away!

https://www.facebook.com/coffindagger
http://coffindaggers.com/
http://thecoffindaggers.bandcamp.com

Last edited: Aug 09, 2016 09:54:22

Well i have delt with exactly what you are saying except in my case everyone around my area wanna play metal or country music. I pretty much had to market the band a little different and tell people it's a rockabilly band for them to even listen to me. By doing that I ended up with competent players who are from both the country and metal scenes but are interested and willing to learn surf music

It takes time to find the right band members. Once you do, you have the potential to be together for the next 20 years! Keep looking...

Craig Skelly

Little Kahuna
www.littlekahunamusic.com
The Breakaways
The Curl Riders

I don't get why drummers from other genres don't want to learn surf music. It's as simple or as complex as you want to make it. It's a pretty shred-tastic style all the way around, when it calls for it. Surf has it's own challenges compared to other genres of music. It's great. The people that frown on it or don't care to know it, probably aren't the kind of musicians you'd want anyway. I run into the same problem here in Alaska when it comes to specific kinds of metal I would like to play, so I can feel you when it comes to the frustration. And like you, I am the guy that shows up to rehearsals with songs learned and ready to go. I've filled in on drums for gigs when I had just a few days to learn tunes, or less than a week to learn a new band's set to replace a drummer who played a week prior. I get it. You're a pro musician, even if not a sponsored and paid 'professional'. You do your homework and expect the same. It is lame when you're more prepared than the established band you're stepping in for. I get it. However...

As others had suggested (in so many words), you may need to swallow your pride a bit, and find musicians that are willing to give Surf a go, and are willing to learn the songs, even if they're otherwise unfamiliar with the genre as a whole. When my surf band up here formed, it did take some convincing to get people on board, especially if they weren't too familiar with the genre. But we show them a song or three, and they got kind of excited. Again, you may have to take complete newbies to the surf scene and get the band you want, even if it takes a few weeks/months/whatever. Or reach out further than your state, which you have the option of doing, living in the lower 48. Heck, you could probably find some country cats who would love to do something less honky tonk and still keep the twang they're used to playing. I'm sure you can find some band mates.

Best of luck man. You sound passionate (though quite disgruntled in your rant) about playing music, and specifically that kind of music, and hopefully you'll unearth the same with a little digging around.

Gear:Kit:Pearl Reference series in Emerald Fade,Pearl rack,Pearl Demon Drive pedals,Tama Iron Cobra hi-hat stand, Sabian & UFiP cymbals.

Last edited: Aug 08, 2016 11:27:16

I have to agree with Jake on this one. Steve's original post is really off putting to me. I am practicing my butt off trying to get better, but with a wife and kids, it's not always easy to find the time. Also, my band practices on Wednesday night, that's the only free night we have.

We've actually been playing at a local bar lately, the reason I haven't posted the video on here is because I have a feeling we will get flamed beyond recognition. I am open to constructive criticism, I have much thicker skin than I used to, but the fact is I still have a long way to go when it comes to playing guitar. Having said all of that, I appreciate your post, and do hope you find what you are looking for. Best of luck to you, Steve.

MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.

Here in Halifax, NS I have a pool of musicians I can draw on if I need a sub for a gig. What I did was get out and meet musicians who are playing a lot locally, sit in with them, hang out with them, and become friends. If we need a sub, I will simplify the set list if there is no time for rehearsal (usually the case), or send them some mp3s (like I did with the Wadadli Riders at Surfer Joe 2009- the first time we played together was on stage). Once I needed a drummer one hour before a gig (because of emergency)and got one that we had never played with through a friend (who also has subbed for USK). The gig went well.

The key here is to be able to pay your subs for the gig, treat them well, and have fun. I will always pay a sub before myself. This could evolve into a band, or not. At least you will have people to play shows with and develop a repertoire over time.

I find great musicians like to play, regardless of the genre. Start out with some 12 bar surf songs, and the classics to get off the ground quickly.

So my advice is to worry less about getting a group of musicians together who can rehearse once a week (that can be tough), and find people who will can play with you on gigs with very little preparation.

I realize, of course, that I have been around forever and already have an established band that can get gigs that pay. But I do think this is another option to try if you can't find people to commit to a band full time.

Good Luck,
Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

Last edited: Aug 08, 2016 12:16:00

psychonaut wrote:

I think that's a big problem right there. You shouldn't form a band or a surf band for that matter expecting 'return'. You should do it simply for the joy of doing it and love of creating. In my case my band has been going for well over 15 years, we've released three albums, 3 singles, toured europe 3 times and done a few U.S. tours and play out regularly, yet I'm personally over $30,000 in a hole from financing a lot of it, and will probably never see that money again. We've generated quite a bit of money over the years, but it all goes right back into the band not my pocket. If I had the attitude of "I'm not bothering because there is little return" well I wouldn't even have a band at this point, or done any of the tours or recorded any of the records. All those things happened because I was monomaniacally dedicated to making them happen and never once thought of what I would get in return for my investment.

1000% agreed. Though there might be bands playing surf music out there making money, they are probably corporate-gigs cover bands but even that's tough to pull off. But if you want to play original surf music, and anything that's not entirely designed to be danceable, the notion of making a return is far-fetched. I know that there are some original surf bands in Europe that make decent money (the Bambi Molesters come to mind, probably the Phantom Four, too, and I suspect a handful of others), but in general it's extremely difficult if not even impossible to do so in the US. I'm not in the hole nearly as much as Victor, but I have paid quite a bit of money out of my own pocket to the band through the years, while all the money we've made has gone into the band account to fund the next recording or the tour or whatever. I don't know that all that many bands playing in any genre make much money anymore, the world is changing, but playing surf music you're stacking the odds against you even further.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Last edited: Aug 08, 2016 12:45:05

JakeDobner wrote:

If I read this post and was contemplating being in a band with you, I absolutely wouldn't join due to how critical you are of other players and who self-aggrandizing you were of yourself.

Yes, it was a rant so I was letting it fly.

However, I have also found that honesty is the best policy when it comes to joining a band.

I don't want to waste my time or theirs, and I tell them that up front. Some people get put off by that, but others appreciate it.

When I communicate with people, I try never to burn any bridges and I'm always open-minded and fair.

However, I can usually tell pretty quickly now if someone has a "rehearsal band" or a "working band". And people "in the know" know what's what. It's a different milieu than the weekend warrior/hobbyist.

Those people are like "yeah man, I feel you" and those are the bands I sub in, or join, etc.

The people that are put off by it - let's just say when I respond to a "guitarist wanted" ad and don't take the gig because I see a bunch of red flags, I notice that same band will be on CL every 6 months or so looking for a guitarist again....

But yeah, I'm griping here!

SixStringSurfer wrote:

I have to agree with Jake on this one. Steve's original post is really off putting to me. I am practicing my butt off trying to get better, but with a wife and kids, it's not always easy to find the time. Also, my band practices on Wednesday night, that's the only free night we have.

Just to help you understand my perspective, and no offense, but let me ask you this:

You have a wife and kids. You probably have a job. You're busy, right?

How would you feel if you showed up to that Wednesday night practice, and have learned the material and could execute it almost flawlessly? I know you say you're practicing trying to get better so I don't know what level you are, but let's say you've practiced your butt off all week learning the lead line to Hawaii 5-0.

What happens when you show up, with your part down, that may have taken you 6 hours to figure out, then an hour or more a night practicing to get it under your fingers, but the bass player doesn't know the changes? Or the rhythm guitarist hasn't even learned it?

I don't know how long you've been playing, or how old you are, but I would think that your time is very valuable and if you're like me, you're likely spending time working on H5-0 that could be spent with your family, or working extra to get more money to pay bills, or just relaxing, or whatever.

I'm 48 and I've been gigging semi-professionally for about 20+ years now.

Maybe it's mid-life crisis (belated as it is) but I just don't feel like I have the time to waste.

I think it's GREAT for people to get together and play music - be it for fun or as a business venture. I think people who need to get together once a week need to get together once a week - whether the need be just to learn songs, or to really tighten up and already tight band.

So I'm not trying to put anyone down - everyone has to start somewhere, and everyone's in it for different reasons.

We've actually been playing at a local bar lately,

Awesome!

the reason I haven't posted the video on here is because I have a feeling we will get flamed beyond recognition. I am open to constructive criticism, I have much thicker skin than I used to, but the fact is I still have a long way to go when it comes to playing guitar.

Hmmm. I don't' think that's true. I've seen the community here and they're very supportive - comrades-in-arms so to speak.

I'm not offended by what you or Jake said to me, or anything criticism anyone offered - I've been around the block enough times to know that we're all different, all have had different experiences, and all have come away with different takes on those experiences. You or Jake can't possibly know me that well from just my post (or all posts here) and nor can I you or him. It's very easy to get an incomplete picture of someone from their posts and it's very easy (and probably human nature) to assume things about people.

That's the internet for you - worse than real life!

You guys are right - it takes a lot of courage to get out there and put it out there. Guess what - you can expect some people to flame you apart. But it's important to be able to take the good with the bad, and to realize when someone's just way off base or didn't get what meant, versus actual constructive criticism and so on.

FWIW, I understand when I say things like "I don't even bother with bands that rehearse every week and never gig" or anything of that sort it can come off as - someone on another forum said this - "elitist".

But my time is valuable to me. It's not "fun" for me to go to a practice and have to teach the bass player their part. What's "fun" to me is showing up and counting it off and everyone playing and having a good time.

And what's more fun is playing in front of a live audience who digs what you're doing. That's what I work towards. If everyone else is in "just for fun" or has different goals, that's cool, I understand.

That's just not my thing. If people are put off by my asking them "how do you plan to get gigs" or something, that band is probably not gong to be getting any gigs so it's not going to be any fun for me.

I wrote a reply but got interrupted at work, and now my response is gone. Anyway, I can see where it would be frustrating for someone in your position (a top notch professional). Just to be clear, I am not being sarcastic. I am an amateur player who is just trying to get our band out there in front of an audience.

Not to spark another debate, but when I tell everyone that we will play for free, for some reason it really sets off professional musicians/bands. They don't want us telling venues that we will play for nothing. Too bad for them, I guess. We will happily play your venue/party for free, we're not even concerned about tips! Anyway, best of luck to you. We all need to vent sometimes. Laughing

MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.

Stevel,
I give up off and on. I've met all the flakes - a "commie" surf band (they played at the "Sick of Bush" Festival(??) in NY years back. Then there's drummers who can't do a simple snare roll and other guitar players who can't do a simple 'gliss' and have to string their Strats with light gauge strings so they don't hurt their little handsies. Flakos who won't do more that a 1/2 hour drive to practice - expecting all talent to be in town or the next town. I've had bass players that made every tune Latin. Thank God my son grew out of punk somewhat and now plays bass with me. I show him a few lines on bass and he's on it.

Have you checked out the Ventures Fest in Crumm Lynne, PA? This year is going to be a blast. It grows each year it is held. It's not that far from VA - meandering thru the distant planets of Maryland and Delaware north on I-95. You might meet some interested parties. I have. Playing with one of the Ventures is kinda cool, too.

J Mo'

Serious question...

how do you address weak link band members in a postive way?

I've been the weakest link in bands before, and it always made me want to work my ass off. But not everyone thinks like that.

Waimea,
I have very recently been in the same situation - practicing very earnestly with a combo and after auditioning several players for a certain instrument settling on the one who is available but finding after several practices that he can't pick up the slack and just doesn't get it - can't understand surf bass enough to even cop lines off records.
When he's not there all the rest of us gripe about how he drags us down - yet has been the only one who is really available. Just drives you nuts.

Squink Out!

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