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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink 1976-1978 Silver Face Reverb Unit

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SurfBeat wrote:

Fender used those in the silverfaces and everything I have read about caps is that is one main reason SF amps sound terrible.

That statement is loaded as f*ck.

Can we please just, for once, acknowledge that Silverface amps, while different, can be every bit as great as their blackface counterparts?

I highly doubt that in a blind test you would be able to say which amp is which. I've played a shitload of old fenders and I've found that two blackface amps of the same model and era can sound as different as a Silverface and a tweed. Ymmv, but I've played as many crap silvers as I have blacks, and I would hardly try to say that silvers suck.

IMO.

Preston. You are what, 16? You've played through a shitload of old Fenders, including black face, silver face, tweed, and brown face?

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
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I live in Austin. One trip to a guitar shop here and you've already seen a shitload of Fenders.

So I can, in complete honesty, say that yes, I have haha. It's a great experience living here!

My favorites have been a blackface champ, tweed princeton, blackface princeton, and a silver bandmaster... Of course, as far as reasonably affording any one of those on a low wage salary, the princeton's are a bit too much.

IMO.

Last edited: May 01, 2015 09:51:58

And yeah, 16 as of last year. Time flies when life doesn't suck.

IMO.

PrestonRice wrote:

Time flies when life doesn't suck.

Ah... teenage wisdom at it's finest Big Razz

PrestonRice wrote:

I live in Austin. One trip to a guitar shop here and you've already seen a shitload of Fenders.

So I can, in complete honesty, say that yes, I have haha. It's a great experience living here!

My favorites have been a blackface champ, tweed princeton, blackface princeton, and a silver bandmaster... Of course, as far as reasonably affording any one of those on a low wage salary, the princeton's are a bit too much.

Preston, there's a HUGE difference between putzing around with an amp in a guitar store, and actually playing it with a band, whether in practice or in particular live. Your experience with these amps is very limited, and maybe you should stop acting as though you're an expert.

Ivan
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Arguing will change nothing. A week from now, I'll give my opinion or even real knowledge on another subject and you two will jump in with "just a kid, no experience", to which I'll be tempted again to argue. So whatever floats your boat. I'm entitled to an opinion as much as anyone here, and if you disagree with it, that's fine, because that's exactly what boards like these are for. But please lay off of bashing my credibility and treat my statements and opinions as you would those of anyone else, and argue them by attacking the statements and not my own experience.

IMO.

For the record, I don't disagree with you. A crowded music shop is a pretty lame place to get a feel for an amp, as you miss out on quite a few important factors, like how it sounds recorded, with your pedals, or as far as durability goes.

But you assumed that I haven't spent time gigging with any variety of amps. Big Grin

IMO.

Last edited: May 01, 2015 11:10:02

The problem is that you are dispensing opinion and advice as though you've been playing for 30 years, extensively used every one of these amps, and are, in short, an expert. You're of course entitled to your opinions, but people on this forum may take those opinions as being based on great deal of 'field-testing' and somehow definitive, and may make expensive purchase decisions based on them - not being aware of that fact that you really don't know very much at all. It would serve you well - and others that may be reading your posts, too - if you would write with more humility and openness about the fact that your experience IS in fact fairly limited. Though I know humility is a highly foreign concept to a typical 16-year-old, I do advise very strongly that you try.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Last edited: May 01, 2015 11:43:21

That is a bit harsh on Preston. There are tons of opinions on this site from players whose experience, expertise and abilities are completely unknown. I thought he was right in his post about Silver Face amps. On the other hand, I bought an EP Booster based on Ivan’s enthusiastic recommendation and I was disappointed so whose opinion can we really trust, who is really an expert? I’ve come to the conclusion that it is best to use your own ears before making any purchases.

Stormtiger wrote:

That is a bit harsh on Preston. There are tons of opinions on this site from players whose experience, expertise and abilities are completely unknown.

For some much more than others....

I thought he was right in his post about Silver Face amps. On the other hand, I bought an EP Booster based on Ivan’s enthusiastic recommendation and I was disappointed so whose opinion can we really trust, who is really an expert? I’ve come to the conclusion that it is best to use your own ears before making any purchases.

Doug, that would seem to be a no-brainer. I'm sorry you didn't like the EP Booster, but my comments were based on extensive use of that piece of equipment (which I continue to use). But of course different people will have different tastes and requirements. So, as is often said, YMMV.

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Oh boy!
Wish I was your neighbor to fix that wiring! Wink
I think the value of this units are more in the historical field ...
the changes in the circuit are not that good, especially in the power section ... don`t want too sound too "geek tech" but this changes were done by people who never played a Reverb, they only "updated" the circuits from a pure electrical point of view.

When you have to shoot ... shoot! Don't talk.
"Los Grainders" www.facebook.com/losgrainders
"Planeta Reverb" www.facebook.com/planetareverb

Last edited: May 01, 2015 13:51:39

You are correct Ivan and I did not intend to blame you for anything. It was my own decision to buy the booster, based not only on your advice but the many others who raved about the pedal. I should have tried it first. My point was to just use caution when considering the opinions posted here and don't go buying a Showman, Brown or Silver until you've heard it for yourself...or unless of course Preston gives it a thumbs up.
IvanP wrote:

Doug, that would seem to be a no-brainer. I'm sorry you didn't like the EP Booster, but my comments were based on extensive use of that piece of equipment (which I continue to use). But of course different people will have different tastes and requirements. So, as is often said, YMMV.

Emilien03 wrote:

"Oh boy! I Wish I was your neighbor to fix that wiring! . . . the changes in the circuit are not that good, especially in the power section...I don`t want too sound too "geek tech."

Em&en, go for the "geek." What changes would you make to the power section?

As I related hereinbefore, this 76 is so weak on the verb requiring all knobs to be on the 10's before I get a faint sound of verb.

SurfBeat wrote:

"I did notice you had Illinois caps. . .[e]verything I have read about caps is that is one main reason SF amps sound terrible. . .I think it should have Mallorys. Although those caps do not effect tone, since you related that the SF did not sound as good as your 6G15, maybe there is where the problem lies?

Preston, if you carefully read my post you would have discerned that I was not bashing SF amps, but referred to the general opinion that SF amps had cheap parts, thus, there may lie the reason a SF amp, when compared to a BrnF or BlkF are "usually" inferior.

I have been playing/performing since 1962 and have owned only three amps: 60 & 61 Showman; 64 Showman and a 95 Tonemaster.

I git rid of the Tonemaster quickly because IMO, it lacked tone when compared to my Showmans. That said, it was a very loud amp.

Now, I am a First Wave surf player, so, I prefer the tone found in pre 66 Fenders.

Preferences in tone changed after the English invasion, so did surf music when the 2nd Wave hit with Wronski. I've played with Dave as well as Kurkowski of the Eliminators, (What do you get with three Polish surf players on the same stage) and each of us have our own ideas of tone and delivery, thus look for a certain amp to get it.

Dave is in the audience face with his Supers and he has legions of young followers, so he is doing something right. Joe is mellow, fantastic arranger/writer, looks for the First Wave sound utilizing minor chords to get what he wants. All three of us represent different eras, thus as pointed out above, seek an amp that gets us the tone we want.

So, for the record, I am not bashing any amp, but I prefer my Showmans over any amp I have heard, and believe me, I have heard a lot since 1962.

PrestonRice wrote:

That statement is loaded as f*ck. Can we please just, for once, acknowledge that Silverface amps, while different, can be every bit as great as their blackface counterparts?

With all due respect PR, the Thread is about 76 SF Reverb units and my endeavors to see if I can get some help to facilitate getting it up n running, so, your reply distorts those endeavors.

I tend to have s sense of humor which unless a person was a cop, can interpret my comments as offensive. That is never my intent. I just write with a glare for levity. I don't take a lot of things seriously.

So PR, on this Thread which I initiated, I would greatly appreciate it if you would find another Thread, or start one, to argue the pros and cons of SF v whatever face amps. Cheers

"SF amps sound terrible" is quite different from "usually inferior".

But, I digress. My original comment was just one that stated my experience with Fender amps and how I see the differences between them. Sorry if it was strongly worded, or if my opinion was not presented as such.

Sorry for the derail!

IMO.

UPDATE:

Those of you who have been around here for a while know that every couple of years since 1998 I have been trying to get some help to figure out the reason my 1976 (Silver-face) Fender Reverb unit "had" absolutely no drip, no pop, unless I set all controls to 10, and even then, the drip "was" faint.

I have communicated with at least five people here and a few others on other sites and everyone experienced the same problem, or a similar one.

A couple weeks ago I drove out to the boondocks in Hemet to meet a guy who was selling a purported great sounding 76 Reverb unit for sale and when I turned it on to play through a Twin, it sounded like crap, not quite as bad as mine, but definitely not even close to what a reverb should sound like.

I finally have some good news for everyone who has a similar Reverb unit; my 76 is up and running, probably sounding just as good, maybe better than my 61

Although I now have the solution to get yours running, be advised that unless you possess a tad more than elementary electrical skill, you will have to get a techie to install/remove parts and do some rewiring.

The techie who fixed mine just handed me a bill for $293.33; $90.63 for parts, $7.70 for tax; $200 for labor @ $10 per hours. Definitely not a small bill.

Until I bought this SF Reverb unit, I never had an opinion one way or another about SF amps because I never owned one (I am a brown-face man-except for the SF Reverb unit), but I now join the legions of others who can confirm that SF amps were designed with so many flaws that the only way Fender could survive, was to trash the amps and start over, just like they did.

Ok. Back to the repair. Here is the note from techie.

Hi Joe,

After expending a couple of hours comparing the schematics with your 76 and 1961 6G15, then carefully examining the wiring, I noticed that Fender's assembly team failed to wire it correctly.

Unfortunately, even after I corrected the problem, your 76 reverb unit still sounded like crap.

I then began to do some and discovered that the fella who re-designed the 75-78 Reverb unit, Bob Rissen, wanted to eliminate the drip sound and cut the high frequency. In other words, Rissen was trying to obtain a natural reverb sound, in contrast to what Leo wanted. Unfortunately, that was not what Leo intended back in 61 when he designed the original 6G15; He wanted drip, what you and your buddy Dale always want.

I then decided that the only way I was going to really be able to give you the sound that you really want, like on your old records, was to replace the old circuit board with a modified one, replace some caps, resistors and pots.

Joe, this baby sounds effing amazing now, way mo betta that your 61.

Tell everyone you know that owns a 75-78 reverb unit that IT MUST be modified to get the drip sound like a 6G15 or RI. The 75-78's were designed NOT TO get drip, but only a natural reverb sound.

I am enclosing photos for you to see what I did and will return it tomorrow so you can hear the difference. Get ready to put your 61 on ebay. You won’t need it anymore.

If anyone wants my design and a list of parts to get theirs running like Leo would want, have them send me $50, or send the unit and I will get it running for $250.00. I will give you $50 for every referral.

Sambo

Last edited: May 20, 2015 15:09:57

I nearly bidded on a '76 tank on FleaBay two days ago but decided against it after reading this thread and other posts on the lack of drip and the reason for this. Saved me $$$$

https://www.facebook.com/lostremoleros/

I have a 76 also, I am quite curious as to what may happen if I just replace the pots. According to the schematic on the '76 the dwell pot is 10k, where on the 6g15 it is 250k. Tone is both 50k and the mixer is 100k on the '76 and 250 on the original 6g15. Any thoughts on just changing those values?

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