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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink 1976-1978 Silver Face Reverb Unit

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Does anyone out there have a 1976-1978 Silver Face Reverb Unit?

If so, have you compared it to a 61 or a post 93 RI?

If so, what was the difference, if any?

If you still have a 76, I would appreciate it if you would post the innards, caps, etc.

This POS I have sounds terrible and it may be caused by the last owner modifying it, or because of the cheap caps Fender used during the 70's.

If the latter, then if one of you owners experienced the same problem and rectified it, what was the cure? Photos will be appreciated.

Every once in a while I see this POS in the garage and if I have some free time, which is not often, I get the energy to get it to sound like my 61, if that is possible.

Maybe they were built to sound like crap, thus the reason any Fender amp with a SF is avoided like us GI's in Nam avoided the hooker babes so we would not get a dose of the clap.

http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/
This might have some info. Found the link in another thread.

Hey, don't badmouth SF Fender amps! They are just a $30 parts-swap away from BF.
I heard bad stuff about the reverb units though. It's such a simple circuit, should be easy to retrofit it to early-60s specs, no?
Also, try changing out the tank. Often, they just get worn beyond help. But luckily, there are plenty of NOS and slightly-used vintage tanks laying around in AZ warehouses. I lucked out with 3 good Gibbs tanks for $15.

Squink Out!

It's hard to see how CBS could mess up a reverb tank circuit, there's hardly anything in it.

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

Well they did put an extra tube in it.

Surfbeat, you post this question every couple of years. A silver face reverb unit is a pretty rare thing and I'm guessing not too many people have experience with them. Still, it's a fairly simple device and a good amp tech should be able to tell you what's wrong with it. Good luck!

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me

"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
What Brian said.

Any good amp tech can fix fix the electronics. Buy a new MOD reverb pan (around $20) and have the tech install it. Problem solved.

And as JObeast said, don't believe everything you read you read on the internet about silverface Fender amps. My unmodified '75 Twin is one of the best-sounding amps I've ever played through in the past half century of playing guitar. The secret is to leave the master volume on 10 and use a pedal for distortion.

Jack
aka WoodyJ

The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money
(1978-1990)

According to Sprung and Teagle, the main differences between the original (and reissued) reverb units and the 76-78 silver faced ones are:

No choke in the power supply, relying on bigger filter caps to smooth out the DC.
Hum balance circuit for the tube heaters

Single diode in the power supply replaced the three in series from before

A 6V6 driver tube rather than the original 6K6

An additional 12AX7 at the output stage of the unit to act as a buffer.

The input jack and output jacks have a connecting wire to short the output when no guitar was plugged into the input.

Seems like Spanky Twangler had one of the SF units at one point. I did too in the 80's and it worked fine. Better than any pedal by a long shot.

ed

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

I would swap the tank and tubes from the 63 and see how it sounds. Then, if it still sounds bad, start thinking about the circuit. If it's still bugging you, I'll happily take it off your hands and liberate some garage space...

And my Silverface Showman is fantastic amp. Too much stuff about guitar tone on the internet is obsessed with blues tone. We don't want bluesy, we want big and clean and Silverfaces deliver that in spades.

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

Last edited: Apr 16, 2015 08:49:14

Or even "worse" - Music Man amps! Beyond SF in clean power, solid state preamps with Master Volume Oh my! I even like the preamp overdrive,esp with Tremolo cranked. Leo knew from amplifier design.

WoodyJ wrote:

And as JObeast said, don't believe everything you read you read on the internet about silverface Fender amps. My unmodified '75 Twin is one of the best-sounding amps I've ever played through in the past half century of playing guitar. The secret is to leave the master volume on 10 and use a pedal for distortion.

Squink Out!

JObeast wrote:

Or even "worse" - Music Man amps! Beyond SF in clean power, solid state preamps with Master Volume Oh my! I even like the preamp overdrive,esp with Tremolo cranked. Leo knew from amplifier design.

WoodyJ wrote:

And as JObeast said, don't believe everything you read you read on the internet about silverface Fender amps. My unmodified '75 Twin is one of the best-sounding amps I've ever played through in the past half century of playing guitar. The secret is to leave the master volume on 10 and use a pedal for distortion.

I've just bought a MM (110RD50) and it sounds amazing. The HRD is up for sale.

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

10-4 Da Ron. All my "brown face appearing" killer katcher konversions were once silver face Dual Showman Reverbs. One each '68,'69 and '70. As Woody will concur, they don't take no crap off nobody.

I can "listen" to about 5 minutes of blues wanking and I'm scouting out the closest exit.

Ok Ed.....back downstairs.

ed

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

Yep, every couple of years when the boss lady gets on my butt to clean out the garage, I bump into the POS SF 76 Fender reverb unit, then, thinking I will find some new info on it to get it to sound like my 61, I get snooping around.

As I stated before, three techs went through it and said 76's just sound terrible; will never replicate a 61. (turning all the knobs to 10 to get some pop, IMO, was not what CBS had in mind when they built it) But then, maybe the 76-78's were POS, thus the reason CBS took them off the market after only 2-3 years?

For the record, I switched all the tubes, tank, RCA plugs with my 61 and the latter sounded great, the SF still sounded terrible.

A few years ago I saw a web article (with photos) regarding which caps and electrolytics to change. Of course, I copied it, got busy with work or heading to the River to drop my Jet Ski's in the Colorado at Parker, AZ, so, I sure as heck put it where I cannot find it now and it is no where on the web now that I have some goof off time on my hands.

Anyone got it?

For the record, I have nothing against a SF amp, even though I continue to play through my 60 Vibrasonic for practice and 62 Showman for ahows.

I will take a SF over anything Fender has made since the mid eighties.

Back in 96 when I thought it was time to retire my Showman I picked up a Tonemaster from Zinky on the cheap at Fenders R&D in Scottdsdale. At first I thought it sounded bitchin, then I took it over to DD's crib for a A-B check and it was clear that it was best used for a boat anchor.

I got the soldering iron out, bought some caps and vola, the Showman was sounding bitchin again.

Now back to seeing if I can get this POS 76 to work.

Actually I do have one, but when you first posted it was still in the shop getting fixed.

I have modified 90's Fender RI, a Gomez G-Spring and a Texotica.

I compared and indeed the SF sounds different, especially with the original Accutronics pan. I swapped some pans around to check, and was able to get some drip from it (pop in your terminology). I did not swap tubes to compare.

You are correct, it does not sound in the same ball park as the other units. I plan to keep mine, probably would work well as a Bass VI unit.

Ran

The Scimitars

Mmmm. Here's the schematic for the Silverface:
http://ampwares.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Fender-Silverface-Reverb-Unit.pdf

Very different from the 6G15: http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=837

Seems like you have most of the components, but not necessarily in the right order!

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

KTR, I just sent you a PM to ask if you could send me a photo your the innards of your 76.

Since your 76's sound also is not comparable to a RI, and mine only pops when all knobs are on ten, unlike my 61 where it pops at 5, I am opining that the problem lies with cheap (did not use the "C" word Mr. moderator) innards.

Reading Weber's books, as well as a few others, each state that Fender relied on cheap Chinese caps and electrolytics in the mid 70's, thus lies a significant reason SF's sound terrible.

In an effort to give some input to others who own these POS SF 76 Reverb units, I am posting the innards of mine for you to compare to yours.

All comments welcome.

image
image
image
image

SurfBeat, I am posting the pics you requested here in this thread, where all related discussions belong.

Hope this helps:

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

image

The Scimitars

Kick: Please keep that mother open. I just figured out a techie took my stock tranny out and replaced it with a cheap Mojo and did not hook up one of the wires.

Please give me a close up of the wires coming out of the tranny and where they go.

I may also have some good news for you to bring your reverb up to the 61 sound.

I would talk more, but the wife is on my @$$ to get ready to go out for a dinner engagement.

I will be back with you as soon as I can. You da man.

Joey

Sorry, it's been put back together and closed right after the pics were taken.
Not sure which part you need, I took close ups of everything.
Every place that had wire pass through chassis has close ups and there are pics showing the overall layout.
If you need the pics bigger I can share via dropbox.
Ran

The Scimitars

Thanks Kicker. I really appreciate the effort you took to help me out.

I am gonna look over your photos now.

I did notice you had Illinois caps. Did it have a cap job? Fender used those in the silverfaces and everything I have read about caps is that is one main reason SF amps sound terrible.

I think it should have Mallorys. Although those caps do not effect tone, since you related that the SF did not sound as good as your 6G15, maybe there is where the problem lies?

When my project ends I will have a lot of data for others who own these relative unknown verbs.

Again, I really appreciate what you did for me.

SurfBeat, I really don't know if it had a complete cap job, things mostly look factory, at least compared to the pics you posted of your tank. I did have it in the shop to get rid of rustling at idle and weak reverb. It came back quiet and with more reverb, but not as much as the older style.
Keep us posted with any positive progress.

Ran

The Scimitars

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