kickthe_reverb_
And Tuck, I hope you weren't suggesting that I can't tell the difference between different Flamenco numbers.

Sorry, KTR. I see now that you later specifically attributed the possibility of confusion to the man in the street.

I'm back to Zorongo/Exotic after a bit of a break. A few developments to report. Mainly I'm working on catching up with Ivan's extensive collection of versions, reported above. Ivan, you have no idea how grateful I am for that list and all your analysis of the material.

I finally got around to ordering the booklet & CD for Alan Alexander's interesting mandolin version of Zorongo (with guitar accompaniment). He wasn't aware of the surf versions under the name of Exotic, but thinks the music is so well know to those interested in early or popular Spanish music, Flamenco, etc., that almost anyone like that would know the tune.

For an example of a vocal version (Spanish, formal vocal) see de los Angeles et al. Songs of Spain, disk 3. If you're not a fan of the classically trained female voice this version may not exactly move you, but, sure enough, it's the melody, and the performance tradition here goes back - I think - to F. Garcia Lorca's recordings with La Argenita (Encarnación López Júlvez).

A discussion of Garcia Lorca's connection with the song is available. It appears that the music - at least as Garcia Lorca himself played it - was first transcribed in 1961, long after his execution in 1937.

There is quite a collection of performances at YouTube. I'm going to have to wait til I am on a highspeed connection to check these out myself. Several of these versions are choral-classical. Others are flamenco guitarists' renditions.

There's actually an instrumental rock version of Zorongo by Los Jets. It is on 40 Aniversario and The Essential, but, unfortunately, no sound swatches for either. However, there are for Spanish Blood, which is pretty cool! I'm indebted to Tom's Tsunami Soul set lists for WOBC 91 FM of Oberlin, OH for the lead on Los Jets. Tom, if you're out there, thanks!

Last edited: Jul 18, 2007 13:36:58

wooza
I finally got around to looking at reverb central. The version I was talking about is in fact by the Sentinals, off the album "Vegas Go Go." ... Having just heard the Rhythm Kings' version and after reading Phil Dirt's review (I can't figure out how to create a link to it with his new site setup) it's pretty apparent that the Sentinals were copying the Rhythm Kings. They're definitely not as polished, but I'm really partial to their version. It's got character oozing all over.

To link into Reverb Central you pull up a "properties" display of the frame you want and cut and paste the link out of that. However, links into a layout like this are risky and can easily be undercut as the scheme changes. Safest to go to the top and use the site navigation.

Phil Dirt on the Sentinals

Phil Dirt on "the Mariachi Version" (by the Rhythm Kings)

Al Garcia & the Rhythm Kings

The Sentinals version is also credited to B. Morgan, I notice. It is a significantly rewritten version, as pointed out by Ivan, and a very high energy presentation. I have been listening to the versions I have - still several behind Ivan - and noticing some interesting things about what is removed, left in, added, and finally, in some cases, stuck back in. I believe some of the performers were music historians familiar with several alternate versions.

I said I'd say something about the transformations of the Zorongo/_Exotic_ music. For now at least this will have to be fairly non-technical and even non-musical.

The original Zorongo is in 3/4 or something on that order, but Exotic is transformed to 4/4, more or less. I think you could count something more elaborate, which may reflect its ancestry.

Al Garcia & the Rhythm Kings

Order: I think the original version called Exotic is the one attributed to the Rhythm Kings (which would be the same as Al Garcia & the Rhythm Kings). I assume it's the same band. On some cuts they are also called the Soul Kings. Again, the same band.

Instrumentation: This version seems to have two trumpets, two saxophones, guitar, bass, and drums. Who played the second trumpet and the bass would be a bit unclear, but this would fit the original 7 piece Rhythm Kings, pre-Hilder, and more or less fits the numbers and reported instrumental skills. It's a bit hard to make things work out unless we assume additonal musicians, multiple tracking, or additional instrumental skills.

Given this observation on the lineup, I'd guess this track was recorded for Ed Cobb (& Vincent Mayorga?) in the Piltdown Men period, and acquired by Hilder later.

Structure: There are essentially two parts to the melody, which I'll call the verse and the refrain. The refrain, especially, is characteristic of Zorongo.

• The Rhythm Kings version starts with a trumpet fanfare over a drum roll, then two bars of the rhythm track.
  

• The verse of this version is 8 bars: two reps of a two-bar phrase, two reps of a one-bar phrase, and a two-bar phrase. This basic verse sequence is repeated to form the verse. The trumpets let themselves get elaborate in the second phrase after the initial rep in the first verse.
  

• The refrain is two reps of a two-bar phrase and then two reps of a transformation of that. The second rep of the second phrase is a bit different.
  

• The whole song is verse x 2, refrain, verse x 2, refrain, verse x 2.
  

• The second time through the two reps of the verse, the second rep of the verse is the guitar solo.
  Jim Waller & the Deltas
  

The version by Jim Waller & the Deltas is pretty similar to the Rhythm Kings version, but the instrumentation sounds like one sax (alto?), bass, guitar (x 2?), drums, organ. The intro is a fanfare on the sax (?), followed by four guitar notes running down the scale. The organ comes in after the first refrain, and the guitar break is the second rep of the verse sequence again. The verse sequence details are played with a bit. In fact, the leadwork is rather interesting and different.

A Mariachi Version?

We had some discussion of "mariachi versions" and the quality of the horn playing. It's hard to say, but I suspect if someone remembers a version with weakish winds, it's Jim Waller & the Deltas. The single wind instrument, whatever it is, is a bit wavery, and also weak or odd or over simple in tonal quality. I'm not really sure what instrument this is, but I suspect an alto sax. This version also has an organ, if that helps.

No trace of keyboards in the version by (Al Garcia &) the Rhythm Kings that I can hear. I don't think anyone has a trombone, etc., either though it's possible there are two different "grades" of sax. I'm not very good at recognizing different saxes by sound, or by appearance either, if they are not very standard and modern in form. (Sigh.)

The Sentinals

The Sentinals version is a big change from the versions mentioned so far.

Order: I'm going to discuss it first, but I am beginning to suspect it is actually logically later than the Original Surfaris I discuss next.

Structure: It's essentially a simplification of the Rhythm Kings version.

• The intro is four bars of the bass riff, then four more bars adding rhythm guitar. The verse sequence is about the same in detail, but done with double picked guitar and the sax takes the rhythm. That intro now becomes a fixed part of the verse sequence.
  

• The first refrain is the Malguena DAA da da, DAA da da-bit twice repated and ending with a drum roll.
  

• Then back to the intro phrase, and then the verse, this time with the sax taking the lead, and the guitar playing the rhythm riff.
  

After this comes what I call the second refrain, which is a completely new high low, high low sequence, and then back to the verse with guitar lead. There's a lot of calling out and chat. The rhythm is pretty different - whatever they call da da DAA da - whereas the Rhythm Kings and the Deltas use DA da DA da.

The Original Surfaris

This brings us to the Original Surfaris, the next version I have. Their rhythm is something like DA da da DA da, FWIW. Very surfy.

• Their intro is a howl that sounds like OUT-siiiide. I think I understand the "outside" reference in general, if not in detail, not being a surfer myself. (Or a musician - can you tell?)
  

Then there's a short down glissando replacing the down note sequence of the Deltas version, and we plunge into the verse with the lead double picked. In fact, the double picking starts before the rhythm and then we get to the verse after about two bars. This two bar intro goes back to the Rhythm King's version. Sometimes it's rhythm guitar, sometimes it's double picking.

The structure of the verse is the same, with the two reps separated by a bar of double picking. So this is the version where the intro gets to be part of the verse proper.

The original refrain is retained. But it consists of three reps of the first two-bar phrase and then one rep of a variation on that. Then there's a bar or two of rhythm guitar and a drum roll. Shout "move it, go, go, go!"

The sax takes the lead after the refrain and the rhythm guitar under that is like the Sentinals' treatment.

Then we get the Malaguena sequence, a shout of "Outside!"

The verse comes up again with the guitar lead. Someone screams.The El Caminos

Now the El Caminos. The rhythm is DAA da DA da. There's no sax, and the rhythm guitar under the lead is pretty audible. The shouts are not always decipherable, perhaps because they couldn't make anything of most of the shouts in the Original Surfaris version. Sometimes it sounds a bit like "Downsize!" so maybe it's rendition of "Outside!"

They too keep the original refrain, in something like the Original Surfaris version. But they skip from that immediately to the Malaguena riff. Then the verse sequence, once, then Malaguena again, then one verse sequence, repeating and fading on the last phrase. Shout "Oh, yeah!"

Agent Orange

My last version is from Agent Orange. Basically, they are doing the Sentinals version, updated in style.

Structure: Their intro starts with the bass riff, four reps with a feedback prolonged guitar note over the last two, and then four reps of the rhythm guitar part. Actually, I think they may just have two bars to each bar in earlier versions. Rhythm twice as fast? Figures! Their basic structure, given the lack of a sax in the mix is verse x 2, Malaguena, verse x 2, High Low High Low, verse x 2. The intro is part of the verse sequence. I'm missing a few details of the ornamentation, mainly for want of vocabulary to discuss cool guitar noises. In their version that intro phase that the Sentinals glommed onto the verse assumes major importance.

Space Victory Theme General Similarities

In deference to Ivan I won't discuss The Space Victory Theme's general similarities to the Zorongo/Exotic family in great detail. The intro is the rhythm sequence, a drum roll, and a transitional guitar sequence ending in a slowish down glissando. The verse part is pretty different in detail and includes three repetitions of the verse sequence, the middle one in a higher register. The refrain consists of two reps each of two phrases, the second rep of the second phrase being varied somewhat. The refrain sequence is the most similar. There's a mysterious low pitched sound at the end. Perhaps the cyborg warriors are cheering? Or the battlestars are passing overhead? Anyway, nice touch!

Traditional Versions

I'll defer any discussion of mandolin and flamenco guitar versions of Zorongo for now, but most of the variation is in the rendition of the verse part.

Sorry about the great length of this, but I felt I had to go over the details to raise my claim of similarity above the level of a bland assertion.

Last edited: Aug 03, 2007 20:57:42

Outer Wave has a good recent version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hB4pG3Oixes

when I see posts like that my ADD kicks in , my eyes gloss over, and I click the button that takes me back to the top of the general surf discussion area. Tuck, you need to learn to edit what your saying.

Or I may be wrong, what does everybody else think?

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Jeff(bigtikidude)

IvanP
Ahhhh, somebody help me, I'm getting WAY too into this topic!!!

It must be catching.

Jim Waller & the Deltas ('62?)
Bob Vaught & the Renegaids (2/63)
The Sentinals ('63)
Dave Myers & the Surftones ('63)
The Original Surfaris ('63)
The Rhythm Kings ('63)

Jim Waller & the Deltas and Al Garcia & the Rhythm Kings two versions are extremely similar.

Agreed. I wonder about the release dates vs. recording dates, but mainly because the instrumentation of the Rhythm Kings version matches their line-up in 1960 as opposed to their post-military service 1962-1964 Hilder lineup. However, I don't have anything other than that surmise (and the style, maybe) to go on.

The Sentinals and Bob Vaught & the Renegaids (Renegades?) are extremely similar to each other, but fairly dissimilar to Deltas/Rhythm-Kings version.

Now that I have listened very carefully to a larger range of versions, I can confirm this, except that I haven't heard the Renegaids version at all. However, the KFJC 1999 Agent Orange version is in the Sentinals tradition.

They both don't have the original 'b' section of the song, also, but rather after playing the verse a few times go to the bridge. ...

And that bridge - two different ones, I think - is additional over the Rhythm Kings/Deltas version.

Finally, Dave Myers & the Surftones and the Original Surfaris versions are very similar to each other, but again fairly dissimilar to the other versions.

I haven't heard the Dave Myers & the Surftones version yet.

My guess is that this is the final version of the song to be recorded.

I was thinking so, too, partly because the Sentinals version has such a strong Latin quality to it that it feels early. However, because the Original Surfaris version has the b part (what I've been calling the refrain) as well as that additional bridge I am starting to think that the Orignal Surfaris version is earlier. It provides the link between the Rhythm Kings/Deltas version and the Sentinals/Renegaids version.

The alternative is to think of the Rhythm Kings/Deltas and Sentinals/Renegaids versions both as degenerate (reduced) variants of the Original Surfaris/Surftones version. Against that, both these versions are better organized - more symmetrical - than the Original Surfaris version, and the Rhythm Kings/Deltas versions are pre-surf Latin in character. The Rhythm Kings version is primarily done with horns.

Contrary to my earlier statement, the El Caminos version is based on the Dave-Myers-Surftones/Original-Surfaris one, not the Sentinals (though the El Caminos repeat the bridge, unlike Dave Myers).

That's what I think, too.

To summarize my hypothesis:

Zorongo

a-stuff b-stuff a-stuff b-stuff, etc.,

Neglecting the details here for now.

=> (via some unspecified connection)

Exotic-1 Rhythm Kings '63 (='60?), Deltas '62?

fanfare-rhythm-intro aa bbcc aa' bbcc aa
(a is horn-based, a' is the guitar solo)

Note: All a, a', a" are internally (xxyyz)

=> (within the Hilder group)

Exotic-2 Original Surfaris '63, Myers Surftones '63

Outside-glissando-intro
double-picking a" double-picking a"
bbbc
rhythm-guitar drums a
Malaguena-break
double-picking a" double-picking a"
repeat last subphrase of a"

=> (within the Hilder group)

Exotic-3 Sentinals '63, Renegaids 2/63

bass-then-rhythm-intro a" bass-then-rhythm-intro a"
Malaguena-break drums
bass-then-rhythm-intro a bass-then-rhythm-intro a
HighLow-break
bass-then-rhythm-intro a" bass-then-rhythm-intro a"

a is done with sax lead and dadaDAda guitar rhythm
a" is done with fast double picked guitar lead

The El Caminos are in the Orignal Surfaris vein.
Agent Orange is in the Sentinals vein.

Outer Wave, pointed out by HBKahuna sounds like it was based on the Agent Orange version, but, listening closer, it turns out to be the Original Surfaris "intermediate" version.

The the Nebulas(live) seems to be the Sentinals' version. But I notice that the "a" phrase is missing a repeat of the second subphrase.

Last edited: Aug 06, 2007 21:20:10

Folks, I just can't resist adding this

Zorongo, a duo performing Spanish music

They have a nice guitar and voice version up, using Garcia Lorca's lyrics.

Here's documention of the Hilder-Morgan connection, from Michael Lloyd's notes to The New Dimensions Sundazed SC 11036: > Shortly after Dave joined the band, Jimmy and I met Robert Hafner and Tony Hilder at a "Battle of the Bands" they were putting on at an old, run down place called the Deauville Club - on the beach in Santa Monica. We convinced Hafner and Hilder to hear us - and not long after they located a recording studio to start making records. For a period of many months, our band was in the studio almost every weekend. The stuido they used was called Stereo Masters, owned by Hite and Dorinda Morgan, the folks that discovered the Beach Boys. Their studio was only mono and two track, but in 1962-63 that was pretty normal. The engineering was done by their son Bruce [Morgan, composer of Exotic] (who went on to do great things with Elektra Records and others).

The bracketed notes are from me. Actually, the second article in the CD liner notes, by Billy Miller, makes it clear that the first two New Dimensions LPs recorded by Hafner & Hilder were done "in a roughshod, no name garage studio run by a mailman in east L.A." A third was recorded live at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. It was only the fourth, Deuces and Eights, that was cut in the Morgan studio.

Miller comments on Hilder's practice of having all groups he worked with record certain songs he controlled, mentioning specifically the Revels' Intoxica, Vesuvius, and Church Key, and the Sentinals' Latinia. Lloyd comments that Hilder had the Original Surfaris put out a single of the Sentinals' Tor-Chula with Lloyd's Psyche-Out on the flip without Lloyd having a clue about it. However, the release allowed Lloyd to join ASCAP at the age of 13. Exotic is another of the Hilder standards, as was the Rhythm Kings' The Soul.

The Rhythm Kings do let their inner Latin Dance band take control on Exotic. If you haven't tracked down their CD, you should. And I have always liked this. It's not surf and there is a vocal after the lead in. It kind of tells you why they sound like they do.

Ritmo del Alma

By the way, they are still around, though only Al and Manny are left from the original band. They haven't slowed down any. Catch them Thurdays up in Bakersfield. Manny is the drummer and he is pretty solid, I think. My views on drumming are mostly useless, but I am pretty sure I am right about him. If you go see them, ask about buying a copy of the LP with Ritmo del Alma. Still available, I think.