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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Surf Music General Discussion »

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While I was trying to figure out what reminded me of Malaguena in The Wedge I ended up trying to figure out if I thought Malaguena had traceable roots. It does in the sense of being derived somewhat indirectly from a piano composition of Ernesto Lecuona's from early in this century. However, while I was listening to Spanish guitar records for bits of Malaguena I discovered a more obvious Flamenco borrowing: Exotic.

I've heard several versions of Exotic. The main thread I'm aware of consists of

Exotic - Original Surfaris - LLSG 1: Big Noise from Waimea!
_Exotic_ - El Caminos - Reverb Explosion

I assume the El Caminos were covering the Original Surfaris, but I don't know the details of the history.

There's a somewhat evolved version of this line:

Exotic - Agent Orange - KFJC 1999 Surf Compilation: Waves of the West

Under a different title, but also sounding to me like a version of Exotic is

The Space Victory Theme - Space Cossacks - Interstellar Stomp

My apologies if the resemblance here is misperceived. It's a very nice version, if it is one!

A somewhat different version of the original line is

Exotic - Rhythm Kings - Original Surfin' Hits

This one is unusual because the lead is carried by two trumpets. Very nice! I don't know if this version is earlier or later than the Original Surfaris version.

I tend to suspect that Exotic must have a pre-Surf US pop source, but I haven't discovered it. Seems like it would be a natural for Les Baxter, Prince of Tiki.

As I said, Exotic definitely has a source earlier than that, and I think this source is a Spanish folk song named Zorongo. Zorongo is supposed to have ancient roots, but I have seen a comment that it was revived or rediscovered by Federico Garcia Lorca. I think maybe what he did was write a poem of that name, although he was apparently a pianist as well as a poet and playright.

FWIW, a zorongo is a sort of cap worn - at least in former days - by Andalucians. The picture I saw made it look a bit like an old-style USN cap. It seems to be a skull cap with the margin turned up. Zorongo is also a style of dance and a style of folk music modelled on the song Zorongo and a sort of quasi-palo (mode or style) in Flamenco. If you search for zorongo on the Web you will find references to the song swamped by references to the dance and its Flamenco connection. Try something like zorongo + "music history".

Versions of Zorongo:

Zorongo - Pepe Romero - Flamenco!

Recuerdos de Viaje op. 71: No. 6 Rumores de la caleta (Malagueña) - Pepe & Celin Romero - Pepe Romero - Guitar Solos

This last is a classical guitar arrangement of a piece by Albeniz, I think. I think that the title works out to something like "Memories of a Journey, Opus 71, No. 6, Sounds of the Gypsy Quarter (?) (in the "Malaguena" palo)."

I've noticed that the following song also resembles Zorongo. Two similar versions:

Danza Arabe - Damasco - Sabicas - Flamenco on Fire
Damasco - Sabicas - Flamenco on Fire

Links:

AAB
AAB
CCCD

It's the last line that's easiest to recognize in all the different versions.

The main surf version has a refrain using the familiar Malaguena riff.

Tuck, this is a very interesting discussion! It would be great to get more of these sorts of things around here.

First of all:

Tuck
Under a different title, but also sounding to me like a version of Exotic is

The Space Victory Theme - Space Cossacks - Interstellar Stomp

My apologies if the resemblance here is misperceived. It's a very nice version, if it is one!

Tuck, you really had me sweating here! As the primary author of The Space Victory Theme, I can tell you that it was not intended to be another version of Exotic. But when I read this I got very worried that maybe I just rewrote Exotic! I had never had anybody point out the similarities, and I had not noticed them before myself. Anyway, comparing the two side by side, I can say - with some relief - that I think the songs are more than sufficiently different. There's a similar melody in the 'B' part of both songs, and that may have been an unintentional 'borrowing' by me. But the similarity is fairly short, I think. Anyway, yikes, that made me a bit nervous...

Tuck
I've heard several versions of Exotic. The main thread I'm aware of consists of

Exotic - Original Surfaris - LLSG 1: Big Noise from Waimea!
_Exotic_ - El Caminos - Reverb Explosion

I assume the El Caminos were covering the Original Surfaris, but I don't know the details of the history.

There's a somewhat evolved version of this line:

Exotic - Agent Orange - KFJC 1999 Surf Compilation: Waves of the West

A somewhat different version of the original line is

Exotic - Rhythm Kings - Original Surfin' Hits

This one is unusual because the lead is carried by two trumpets. Very nice! I don't know if this version is earlier or later than the Original Surfaris version.

The chronology here is lost in the mists of time. I checked out John Blair's book, but he doesn't have the release dates listed for most of these versions. However, when it comes to definitive - and original - surf versions, I think there are two:

The Sentinals (on their "Big Surf" album, their debut on Del-Fi)
Dave Myers & the Surftones (on the "Surf War - Battle of the Surf Groups" compilation LP on Shepherd label)

Notice that the Original Surfaris version was unreleased prior to the Lost Legends CD, which only came out in '03. The above two versions set the bar, therefore.

The Sentinals version is a bit more aggressive and starts with bass and drums, then the chunky rhythm guitar, and then finally the lead. The Dave Myers version starts off with the solo lead guitar playing the melody. However, the Sentinals version doesn't have the 'B' part, which Dave Myers' version does - as does the Original Surfaris version. The Original Surfaris version starts off identical to the Sentinals' version, but it does feature the 'B' part. (From what I recall, the El Caminos version is a pretty straightforward cover of the Sentinals' version, though I'm just going on memory here.) So, it's a mixed bag. Who knows who was influencing whom here?

However, the song is credited to one Bruce Morgan, who was the son of Hite Morgan, the guy that signed the Beach Boys and released Surfin', their first single. It seemed that he was somehow affiliated with GNP/Crescendo as both acts on that label ended up recording a version of it: The Rhythm Kings and Bob Vaught & the Renegades. Jim Waller & the Deltas were another minor surf/r&b band from that time that recorded a version of it.

Finally, that was an interesting discussion tying Exotic to an earlier flamenco piece. It's quite possible, but I'm not familiar with it.

Anyway, I hope this helps a bit.
Ivan

Ivan
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Last edited: Mar 26, 2007 22:31:52

Nice posts, thanks! I dig both the Sentinals and El Caminos versions, but now I am drawing a blank on whether I have heard the Dave Meyers version.

Seeing the Nebulas perform this live was pretty awesome as well. Cool Cool

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Germaine to previous discussions of trumpet in surf, I heartily recommend the 'rhythm kings' version. Great rhthm section on that track, I'd love to find out the exact line up.

Danny Snyder

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DannySnyder
Germaine to previous discussions of trumpet in surf, I heartily recommend the 'rhythm kings' version. Great rhthm section on that track, I'd love to find out the exact line up.

I must second Danny's recommendation. Though in no way is it surf music (some might argue, but it's totally r&b to my ears), it's a really, really cool version. Anyway, John Blair's book gives the following band lineup: Art Rodriguez (lead), Freddy Mendoza (rhythm), Al Garcia (bass), Vincent Bumatay (sax) and Mal Garcia (drums). The band was from Delano, CA. They have a CD out on Dionysus. It's under Al Garcia and the Rhythm Kings. Exotic isn't on it, but there are 15 other tracks. It's pretty cool stuff, from what I remember. (the liner notes list some other band members on sax and trumpet, but apparently they were not at the recording session.)

Ivan

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Well, I think I found the main thread tying all these different bands that recorded Exotic. Here they are again (and the year when they recorded/released their versions of Exotic):

Jim Waller & the Deltas ('62?)
Bob Vaught & the Renegaids (2/63)
The Sentinals ('63)
Dave Myers & the Surftones ('63)
The Original Surfaris ('63)
The Rhythm Kings ('63)

What's one thing they all have in common? Tony Hilder as producer!! I'd bet you anything that he owned the publishing on Exotic and therefore had all the bands (or many of them, anyway) that he was recording simply do a version of it during the sessions. I think I hear some funky notes in both the Original Surfaris' and the Dave Myers & the Surftones' versions, leading me to believe that they had just learned the song and weren't very confident performing it. Anyway, just a bit of speculation here.

Ivan

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Ahhhh, somebody help me, I'm getting WAY too into this topic!!!

Anyway, I imported all six '60s versions into iTunes and then put them all in the same playlist so I could listen to them back to back (I added the El Caminos version for the hell of it).

I found something very interesting:

Jim Waller & the Deltas and Al Garcia & the Rhythm Kings two versions are extremely similar. They both feature the sax on the lead, and have almost the same lead guitar break in the middle. My guess is that these two versions are the earliest ones (and John Blair's release date for the Deltas version - late '62 - would support that).

The Sentinals and Bob Vaught & the Renegaids (Renegades?) are extremely similar to each other, but fairly dissimilar to Deltas/Rhythm-Kings version. They both don't have the original 'b' section of the song, also, but rather after playing the verse a few times go to the bridge. (The Renegaids rhythm guitarist is WAY off in some parts of the song - what the hell??) Again, my guess is that this is the second version of the song, chronologically speaking, though who the hell really knows?

Finally, Dave Myers & the Surftones and the Original Surfaris versions are very similar to each other, but again fairly dissimilar to the other versions. My guess is that this is the final version of the song to be recorded.

Contrary to my earlier statement, the El Caminos version is based on the Dave-Myers-Surftones/Original-Surfaris one, not the Sentinals (though the El Caminos repeat the bridge, unlike Dave Myers).

Anyway, there you go, in case anybody cares. (Anybody?) I'm going to bed now.
Ivan

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

This is definitely an interesting discussion. Besides the El Caminos and Krontjong Devils, which modern bands have done "Exotic?" I think the Bomboras covered it on Savage Island under a different title.

-Warren

That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.

CaptainSpringfield
This is definitely an interesting discussion. Besides the El Caminos and Krontjong Devils, which modern bands have done "Exotic?" I think the Bomboras covered it on Savage Island under a different title.

Yep, you're right Warren! I knew there was one other modern cover of that song that I knew, but couldn't think of it! That was it. It's called "Tortilla" on Savage Island. It seems to be a pretty direct copy of the Sentinals' version.

I totally forgot about the Krontjong Devils, though. I'll have to check that one out.

I'm not aware of any other covers of it. It's surprising, you'd think there would be more.

Ivan

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

So after all is said and done (and thanks for the lab testing, Ivan), do you think that Exotic was basically a rip-off of Miserlou, written to ride the success waves of Dick Dale's version? That's what it always sounded like to me, but I have never conducted any research to backup this theory.
I mean, play it to a crowd that's not comprised of surf geeks, and they'll say "oh cool, it's that song from Pulp Fiction"...
What do you think?
Ran

The Scimitars

kickthe_reverb_
So after all is said and done (and thanks for the lab testing, Ivan), do you think that Exotic was basically a rip-off of Miserlou, written to ride the success waves of Dick Dale's version? What do you think?

I wouldn't say 'a rip-off'. Definitely not. But 'inspired by'? Absolutely. But so what? Many cool songs have somewhat derivative origins. I think Exotic is sufficiently different that it stands on its own. It's a great song, a surf classic without a doubt.

Ivan

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

This is an interesting discussion. Thanks for sharing all the research. I love how surf music has all these wild roots in various forms of music. Where as most contemporary music has cut itself off from connecting to roots, and like a plant with no roots, the music with no roots dies artistically. IMO
Kevin

I love this thread - awesome!

I tried to see if I had that flamenco song on disc but I havent. but Idea the wife of a good friend of mine actually is a proffesional flamenco dancer and teacher, and obviously has an out of this owrld collection of flamenco music. so what Im gonna do is gather a few versions from her and give them a listen. any ideas of other flamenco songs I should ask for? tuck? you seem to be in the know about flamenco Thumbs Up

WR

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Exotic is definitely in the same vein as Miserlou but I also feel it stands on its own as a great song of the 1st wave. Seeing the Nebulas play it live was a tremendous experience. I love it when I hear a great 1st wave song played live for the first time.

Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me

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Just clarifying here, I like Exotic a lot, especially performed live, and I can tell the many differences...but, if I had been influenced by a song/band, etc, I would have definitely tried to stay away from writing the song with so many similarities.
Ran

The Scimitars

WR
I love this thread - awesome!

I'm completely thrilled with where Ivan took it. I don't have access to half the versions he does or to any of the reference material he cites. To be able to tie it to a particular label and producer is something. I figured it was just people liking a song and learning it from another band. It's neat to have someone able to track these things down. I'm sorry it kept him up late, though.

I tried to see if I had that flamenco song on disc but I havent. but Idea the wife of a good friend of mine actually is a proffesional flamenco dancer and teacher, and obviously has an out of this owrld collection of flamenco music. so what Im gonna do is gather a few versions from her and give them a listen. any ideas of other flamenco songs I should ask for? tuck? you seem to be in the know about flamenco Thumbs Up

Whoa, whoa! Let me rush to make it clear that I am not any kind of Flamenco expert. I actually got started listening to the stuff some because I was curious about the origins of songs like Malaguena. A few years ago I got a couple of Pepe Romero collections and a John Williams classical guitar CD. These guys are classical guitarists playing some Flamenco and Spanish folk material along with other things. Since then I have bought a couple of real Flamenco CDs. Oddly enough I kind of like the singing, though I only understand a word here and there. Anyway, your friend would laugh herself into a fit if she saw the list. (Actually, I'd appreciate her recommendations.) Everything I've said comes from listening to those CDs or from some summary descriptions of the genre on the Internet.

Here's the list of CDs I've been using:

  • Pepe Romero Guitar Solos (Pepe and Celin Romero)

  • Pepe Romero Flamenco!

  • John Williams Spanish Gutar Favorites

  • Masters of Flamenco Guitar

  • Sabicas Flamenco on Fire (a/k/a Flamenco Guitar Fiesta, apparently, since that's what CDDB called it)
    For perhaps obvious reasons I was looking for stuff that emphasized the guitar playing, but Flamenco is pretty much built around the singing and dancing aspects and guitar only is considered somewhat weird.

CaptainSpringfield
Besides the El Caminos and Krontjong Devils, which modern bands have done "Exotic?"

Well there's

Exotic- Agent Orange - KFJC 1999 Surf Compilation: Waves of the West

This is as modern a version as you could ask for, I think. I assume that's Phil Dirt remarking on Dusty's drumming at the end?

I'm kinda looking forward to the Krontjong Devils. I don't think the El Caminos version stands out in comparison with some others.

IvanP
(in reference to the Rhythm Kings version of Exotic) Though in no way is it surf music (some might argue, but it's totally r&b to my ears), it's a really, really cool version.

Most of the Crescendo LP sounds very R&B, actually. Or maybe it's very latin. The liner notes - by Tony Hilder - attempt to promote a soul-surf-latin connection, and one of the songs on the LP is the Soul Kings' Pachuko Soul. I now notice - searching for Pachuko in RealPlayer - that the El Caminos also covered that, too.

IvanP
Tuck, you really had me sweating here! As the primary author of The Space Victory Theme, I can tell you that it was not intended to be another version of Exotic. But when I read this I got very worried that maybe I just rewrote Exotic! I had never had anybody point out the similarities, and I had not noticed them before myself. Anyway, comparing the two side by side, I can say - with some relief - that I think the songs are more than sufficiently different. There's a similar melody in the 'B' part of both songs, and that may have been an unintentional 'borrowing' by me. But the similarity is fairly short, I think. Anyway, yikes, that made me a bit nervous...

Sorry! I didn't mean to worry you. I agree that the songs are more than sufficiently different and would be even if there were a deliberate connection. It actually is the lead phrase of the B parts (what I called the CCCD part earlier) that are similar enough that it caught my ear, and of course they are not exactly the same. I put that down to variation. I assumed it was just the B phrase reused - like the echo of Big Chief Whoopin' Koff in the wind up of Pollo del Mar's Navajo Joe, though that's just once in passing.

It's very interesting to hear that the similarity here is all accidental and that you didn't even include B with intent. Your A part and the Exotic A part are quite different in detail, of course, and, actually, I believe there are rather extensive structural differences in both the A's and B's, too. How many phrases, how long, pattern of repetition, etc. I haven't tried to tally things, but I'm pretty sure of that. However, after I had listened to the song again I decided that the A's shared something, even though they were so different. I wondered if maybe you might have had in mind a sort of deliberate variation on the theme - "how far can we get from the original and leave enough to honor it."

The arrangement of phrases and the handling of details in Zorongo per Pepe Romero and in the various surf Exotics is different, too, and though I think most of the same ones recur, I don't think a copyright board would give Bruce Morgan any grief, either.

I just hope I'm not imagining all this! I guess we'll have to wait until somebody who knows what they are doing hears the pre-surf numbers.

Tuck

CaptainSpringfield
Besides the El Caminos and Krontjong Devils, which modern bands have done "Exotic?"

Well there's

Exotic- Agent Orange - KFJC 1999 Surf Compilation: Waves of the West

This is as modern a version as you could ask for, I think. I assume that's Phil Dirt remarking on Dusty's drumming at the end?

Actually that was Mike Palm of Agent Orange saying that.

Jeff(bigtikidude)

Jeff(bigtikidude)

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