reverb on reverb

dp

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
United States

Posted on Jan 24 2007 10:32 AM

anyone out there add reverb on top of reverb?

for example, after tracking reverberated guitars, drums and perhaps a bass track...does anyone add additional reverb to the mix?

How much, and on what tracks do you find additional reverb helpful? Do you ever add global reverb?

Imagine a reverberated surf band playing in a naturally reverberant hall or venue....

Last edited: Jan 24, 2007 17:03:50

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SurfBandBill

Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 1487
San Francisco
1 News Pin

Posted on Jan 24 2007 01:55 PM

Not being much of one for a lot of recording techniques, I've always found that you have to keep the sound from a reverberated amp "dry" as it were, because otherwise it becomes a crazy ringing mess.

Next to that sweet guitar tone, perhaps the most important thing to reverberate is the snare drum. Most particularly, if there is a song which uses a stick layed across the drum and played on the rim, that will produce a SNAP like you have never heard.

One other trick is for bass, and I don't know that it's so much a "trick" as it is standard procedure... but you get a bigger, fuller sound by having two bass tracks - one through a DI, the other with the cabinet actually miced.

~B~

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norcalhodad

Joined: May 25, 2006
Posts: 537
United States

Posted on Jan 24 2007 05:02 PM

I add a little to the master track, but none or very little to the individual guitar and bass tracks. Most goes to the drum track like Bill mentioned. GarageBand has about 20 reverb presets for the master track like, "dark cave", "bright catherdral", "moon dome"...and I use them pretty conservatively. If I'm looking for special sound f/x on the guitar, I'll use an echo pedal with the reverb tank to get some sort of weird sound and get my sound before recording. If I try to figure it out in post-production, my ears/hearing turn to mush.

There's also a very cool, rather insane MatrixReverb plug-in that I use frequently to make non-music sound f/x. Sounds almost like surround sound. A multi-dimensional sound that can re-create the sound of a band playing a hall... Close or very distant.

—

>

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Ron-Rhoades

Joined: Aug 19, 2006
Posts: 958
Kekaha, Kauai, Hawaii
United States

Posted on Jan 24 2007 05:42 PM

Well......i'm a producer as well as a player and i tend not to record instruments with efx and that's because you may not like the effect, or level of effect, when you go to mix and by then it's too late......if you don't like the effect in the mix then you have to re-record that instrument. I recently did just that on my song "Blue Avalanche". I recorded the lead guitar with efx and when i went to mix....it was too much reverb. I knew better but i thought it was just enough efx and it would be cool, but it wasn't. I left it that way cause it's just a demo but i won't be doing that again. Just put your efx in as you mix and retain control of how much, and when and where.
Shoots, i'm going to the beach.
R-R

—

The TakeOffs
"Kauai's Only All-Instrumental Surf Band"
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-TakeOffs/312866840587

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SurfBandBill

Joined: Mar 15, 2006
Posts: 1487
San Francisco
1 News Pin

Posted on Jan 25 2007 12:20 AM

Ron-Rhoades
Well......i'm a producer as well as a player and i tend not to record instruments with efx and that's because you may not like the effect, or level of effect, when you go to mix and by then it's too late......if you don't like the effect in the mix then you have to re-record that instrument. I recently did just that on my song "Blue Avalanche". I recorded the lead guitar with efx and when i went to mix....it was too much reverb. I knew better but i thought it was just enough efx and it would be cool, but it wasn't. I left it that way cause it's just a demo but i won't be doing that again. Just put your efx in as you mix and retain control of how much, and when and where.
Shoots, i'm going to the beach.
R-R

Ron, I can see the benefits of what you're saying, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. In my opinion, the true "sound" of surf guitar comes as a combination of the guitar tone, put through reverb, put through an amp, and coming out through certain speakers. Granted, those amps, guitars, reverb tanks, and speakers are all personal preference, but everyone has their "sound". I would argue that by recording the guitar track dry and adding in the reverb, you are reverberating the amplified tone coming out of the amp, rather than the guitar tone. I guess what I'm saying is that you're "breaking the audio chain".

Granted, I'm one of those fellas who thinks you can't ever have too much reverb, but that is personal taste.

I say when you record, you get "your tone" and try to get the cleanest signal of that. There are tinkerings you can do in post, and many other effects that can be added, but I think when recording surf guitar, you need to have that original tone coming out of the amp to really capture YOUR sound.

Then again, what do I know - I'm a literature geek.

~B~

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devankdevank

Joined: Jan 17, 2007
Posts: 6
Central PA

Posted on Jan 25 2007 07:29 AM

In the recording I do I usually run my guitar into the reverb, into the amp, and then mic that. I put that signal into Garageband where I add just a tad of the stereo reverb so it can splash through both channels. Typically I add an EQ setting such as 'Add Attack' to restore some of the power that tends to get lost when mic'ing.

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Dane_Brammage

Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 203
3 Contributor Pins

Posted on Jan 25 2007 11:31 AM

I've experimented with splitting the guitar signal and recording to two tracks at once. One track is the reverbed and amped sound, the second track is just direct guitar. If the first track works out, great. If not, you can send the second "backup" track back out through your reverb and amp and try again with different settings.

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JakeDobner

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
5 News Pins

Posted on Jan 25 2007 11:43 AM

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dp

Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
United States

Posted on Jan 25 2007 01:33 PM

^ nice response! "reverb on reverb"....cool!

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eddiekatcher

Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2768
Atlanta, GA
1 News Pin

Posted on Jan 25 2007 03:07 PM

King of the mountain? ed

—

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

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Ron-Rhoades

Joined: Aug 19, 2006
Posts: 958
Kekaha, Kauai, Hawaii
United States

Posted on Jan 25 2007 05:51 PM

Bill.......you're right. If a guitar player comes to me and says "this is my sound......" then of course i would record it any way you want. I don't record many surf bands or surf guitar players and my previous comment was a generalization. The most important thing i can do as a producer is get the sound you hear in your head on tape (ummm, i don't use "tape" anymore!!) but you know what i mean. Thank you......you've taught me something important about recording "surf" music. Now, who wants to be my first victim!!
Shoots, I'm going to Costco and get a hot dog.
R-R

—

The TakeOffs
"Kauai's Only All-Instrumental Surf Band"
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-TakeOffs/312866840587

Top

dp Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 3546 mojave desert, california	Posted on Jan 24 2007 10:32 AM anyone out there add reverb on top of reverb? for example, after tracking reverberated guitars, drums and perhaps a bass track...does anyone add additional reverb to the mix? How much, and on what tracks do you find additional reverb helpful? Do you ever add global reverb? Imagine a reverberated surf band playing in a naturally reverberant hall or venue.... Last edited: Jan 24, 2007 17:03:50 Top
SurfBandBill Joined: Mar 15, 2006 Posts: 1487 San Francisco	Posted on Jan 24 2007 01:55 PM Not being much of one for a lot of recording techniques, I've always found that you have to keep the sound from a reverberated amp "dry" as it were, because otherwise it becomes a crazy ringing mess. Next to that sweet guitar tone, perhaps the most important thing to reverberate is the snare drum. Most particularly, if there is a song which uses a stick layed across the drum and played on the rim, that will produce a SNAP like you have never heard. One other trick is for bass, and I don't know that it's so much a "trick" as it is standard procedure... but you get a bigger, fuller sound by having two bass tracks - one through a DI, the other with the cabinet actually miced. ~B~ Top
norcalhodad Joined: May 25, 2006 Posts: 537	Posted on Jan 24 2007 05:02 PM I add a little to the master track, but none or very little to the individual guitar and bass tracks. Most goes to the drum track like Bill mentioned. GarageBand has about 20 reverb presets for the master track like, "dark cave", "bright catherdral", "moon dome"...and I use them pretty conservatively. If I'm looking for special sound f/x on the guitar, I'll use an echo pedal with the reverb tank to get some sort of weird sound and get my sound before recording. If I try to figure it out in post-production, my ears/hearing turn to mush. There's also a very cool, rather insane MatrixReverb plug-in that I use frequently to make non-music sound f/x. Sounds almost like surround sound. A multi-dimensional sound that can re-create the sound of a band playing a hall... Close or very distant. — > Top
Ron-Rhoades Joined: Aug 19, 2006 Posts: 958 Kekaha, Kauai, Hawaii	Posted on Jan 24 2007 05:42 PM Well......i'm a producer as well as a player and i tend not to record instruments with efx and that's because you may not like the effect, or level of effect, when you go to mix and by then it's too late......if you don't like the effect in the mix then you have to re-record that instrument. I recently did just that on my song "Blue Avalanche". I recorded the lead guitar with efx and when i went to mix....it was too much reverb. I knew better but i thought it was just enough efx and it would be cool, but it wasn't. I left it that way cause it's just a demo but i won't be doing that again. Just put your efx in as you mix and retain control of how much, and when and where. Shoots, i'm going to the beach. R-R — The TakeOffs "Kauai's Only All-Instrumental Surf Band" http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-TakeOffs/312866840587 Top
SurfBandBill Joined: Mar 15, 2006 Posts: 1487 San Francisco	Posted on Jan 25 2007 12:20 AM Ron-Rhoades Well......i'm a producer as well as a player and i tend not to record instruments with efx and that's because you may not like the effect, or level of effect, when you go to mix and by then it's too late......if you don't like the effect in the mix then you have to re-record that instrument. I recently did just that on my song "Blue Avalanche". I recorded the lead guitar with efx and when i went to mix....it was too much reverb. I knew better but i thought it was just enough efx and it would be cool, but it wasn't. I left it that way cause it's just a demo but i won't be doing that again. Just put your efx in as you mix and retain control of how much, and when and where. Shoots, i'm going to the beach. R-R Ron, I can see the benefits of what you're saying, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. In my opinion, the true "sound" of surf guitar comes as a combination of the guitar tone, put through reverb, put through an amp, and coming out through certain speakers. Granted, those amps, guitars, reverb tanks, and speakers are all personal preference, but everyone has their "sound". I would argue that by recording the guitar track dry and adding in the reverb, you are reverberating the amplified tone coming out of the amp, rather than the guitar tone. I guess what I'm saying is that you're "breaking the audio chain". Granted, I'm one of those fellas who thinks you can't ever have too much reverb, but that is personal taste. I say when you record, you get "your tone" and try to get the cleanest signal of that. There are tinkerings you can do in post, and many other effects that can be added, but I think when recording surf guitar, you need to have that original tone coming out of the amp to really capture YOUR sound. Then again, what do I know - I'm a literature geek. ~B~ Top
devankdevank Joined: Jan 17, 2007 Posts: 6 Central PA	Posted on Jan 25 2007 07:29 AM In the recording I do I usually run my guitar into the reverb, into the amp, and then mic that. I put that signal into Garageband where I add just a tad of the stereo reverb so it can splash through both channels. Typically I add an EQ setting such as 'Add Attack' to restore some of the power that tends to get lost when mic'ing. Top
Dane_Brammage Joined: Jun 14, 2006 Posts: 203	Posted on Jan 25 2007 11:31 AM I've experimented with splitting the guitar signal and recording to two tracks at once. One track is the reverbed and amped sound, the second track is just direct guitar. If the first track works out, great. If not, you can send the second "backup" track back out through your reverb and amp and try again with different settings. Top
JakeDobner Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 12159 Seattle	Posted on Jan 25 2007 11:43 AM Top
dp Joined: Feb 26, 2006 Posts: 3546 mojave desert, california	Posted on Jan 25 2007 01:33 PM ^ nice response! "reverb on reverb"....cool! Top
eddiekatcher Joined: Mar 14, 2006 Posts: 2768 Atlanta, GA	Posted on Jan 25 2007 03:07 PM King of the mountain? ed — Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps? Top
Ron-Rhoades Joined: Aug 19, 2006 Posts: 958 Kekaha, Kauai, Hawaii	Posted on Jan 25 2007 05:51 PM Bill.......you're right. If a guitar player comes to me and says "this is my sound......" then of course i would record it any way you want. I don't record many surf bands or surf guitar players and my previous comment was a generalization. The most important thing i can do as a producer is get the sound you hear in your head on tape (ummm, i don't use "tape" anymore!!) but you know what i mean. Thank you......you've taught me something important about recording "surf" music. Now, who wants to be my first victim!! Shoots, I'm going to Costco and get a hot dog. R-R — The TakeOffs "Kauai's Only All-Instrumental Surf Band" http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-TakeOffs/312866840587 Top

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reverb on reverb