Dalibor
Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 227
|
Posted on Sep 07 2011 02:29 PM
AnalogSurf wrote:
As Side Note
Around 3 pm 9-07 It was on Fox News and they were at
the Gibson factory.
The owner says he's a Republican...Gibson Is a Non
Union Shop.
The Governmnent took $1 million worth of Indian Rose
wood that was unfinished last month.
What a relief. Now that US govt confiscated Indian Rose wood the planet is saved:)
The feds told Gibson that it would be legal if the Rose
wood Fret boards
were cut and finished outside the United states but it
is Illegal to
import Unfinished wood.
Sure, move all production to China and Korea. Who needs to work anyway. And we can all enjoy cheap shit guitars and amps.
|
AnalogSurf
Joined: Aug 12, 2011
Posts: 133
|
Posted on Sep 07 2011 02:56 PM
So This really comes down to Unfinished Fret Boards !
I guess we could cut them to Legnth in Asia and say they were 25% made outside the U.S....Cut the Fret Lines thats 50%...Drill the Inlay holes 75% ETC..
Im lost now !
Analog-Surf
Last edited: Oct 17, 2011 09:39:02
|
Richard
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 1674
Georgia
|
Posted on Sep 07 2011 03:06 PM
At some point, everyone's head is going to explode.
— The Mystery Men?
El Capitan and The Reluctant Sadists
SSS Agent #31
|
IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10321
southern Michigan
|
Posted on Sep 07 2011 03:15 PM
It seems pretty messed up, and it's not easy to understand. And frankly, some of it just plain doesn't make sense - which is I think why people are quick to jump to the political explanation for the raid (the head of Gibson giving money to Republican candidates, the head of the competitor Martin to Democratic candidates, only Gibson gets raided). US presidents have done such things in the past (FDR and Nixon come to mind first), but it's pure speculation whether it's happening now. The bottom line: if you want to see the explanation of the facts of the case, in all their complexity, the last couple of articles posted by me in this thread do a very good and thorough job, I think. I don't think it's a good idea to try to oversimplify and overpoliticize this case, though of course it's the way of the internet! But I'd like to see us try to rise above that here, and try to make sense of the merits of the case. So, I'd encourage everyone to check out those couple of articles on the previous page.
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
|
JohnnyMosrite
Joined: Jun 14, 2006
Posts: 858
New York City area
|
Posted on Sep 08 2011 06:30 PM
Elreydlp, AnalogSurf, and Ivan.. your posts pretty much echo what I had previously posted - the politics, the black market in tonewoods, as well as foreign (read that as the Chinese) attitudes with regard to this Lacey Act nonsense.
The more underlying question: Why in hell should this even happen in an (allegedly)free country? Armed assault with semi-automatics on what is essentially a craft shop??!! Someone afraid they might get assaulted with a fret file?
We all know that fretboards have to be a dense wood. And that wood is ebony, rosewood. And like I said, if Gibson is locked out from getting raw material, a competitor (like the Chinese) will step in and fill the market. So more jobs go overseas. I'm writing all this as the known jackass in the White House is making his "jobs"(killing) speech to Congress. This dopey raid is his doing. He is responsible.
J Mo'
|
drumuitar
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 813
Boise, ID
|
Posted on Sep 08 2011 08:26 PM
I heard today that the supposed Indian law that the Feds claim Gibson violated isn't a law that has anything to do with protecting endangered woods. The law is only there to force manufacturers to have the fretboards finished in India and provide work for THEIR workers.
— Shawn Martin
http://www.drummerman.net
http://www.youtube.com/GKacedrummerman
http://www.facebook.com/drumuitar
|
Strat-o-rama
Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 385
Boca Raton, Florida
|
Posted on Sep 09 2011 01:35 PM
The plot thickens:
http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-09-06/news/30119268_1_indian-exporters-gibson-henry-juszkiewicz/2
Always follow the money. Looks like someone wants to put a damper on the Indian Wood Business by eliminating one of their good customers.
|
Surfabilly
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 852
Connersville, Indiana, USA
|
Posted on Sep 09 2011 11:31 PM
I may have been right, in a past reply that "the price of Gibsons is gonna go up." If I'm reading correctly the story Strat-o-rama posted the link to, it's looking like somebody's vying to get their grubby paws on the cash flow...going by the part that "India deals directly with companies." Somebody in the U.S.A. wants to be a middle-man, where right now there is no middle man.
— Fast Cars & Loud Guitars!
|
RobbieReverb
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2252
San Jose, Ca.
|
Posted on Sep 10 2011 12:18 AM
|
Surfabilly
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 852
Connersville, Indiana, USA
|
Posted on Sep 10 2011 10:40 AM
So what kind of 450,000 jobs was Obama Bin Laden talking about creating, when he addressed congress the other day?
— Fast Cars & Loud Guitars!
|
Brian
Joined: Feb 25, 2006
Posts: 19195
Des Moines, Iowa, USA
|
Posted on Sep 10 2011 10:56 AM
Guys, there has always been a "no politics" rule on SG101. Is it possible to discuss only the facts of the case?
— Site dude - S3 Agent #202
Need help with the site? SG101 FAQ - Send me a private message - Email me
"It starts... when it begins" -- Ralf Kilauea
|
IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10321
southern Michigan
|
Posted on Sep 12 2011 09:58 PM
|
RobbieReverb
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2252
San Jose, Ca.
|
Posted on Sep 12 2011 10:48 PM
Thanks for all the updates, Ivan. For me this is a B-I-G deal, and I'm watching it very closely.
Bob
— Bob
|
IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10321
southern Michigan
|
Posted on Sep 15 2011 10:28 AM
|
WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1534
Bethlehem, GA
|
Posted on Sep 15 2011 11:13 AM
The letter (from Rep. Blackburn to three federal agencies) also raises the idea that Gibson, which has added 600 new jobs during the current recession, is the victim the government selective enforcement, in effect picking winners and losers, based on the fact that Gibson has imported the same wood without incident for the last 17 years, as have several of its competitors, who have not been raided by federal agents.
It would not surprise me at all if this is the case.
Fender openly and proudly advertises that their 1960 Custom Shop Stratocasters have Madagascar Rosewood fretboards. So, why weren't they targeted as well?
— Jack
aka WoodyJ
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
|
IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10321
southern Michigan
|
Posted on Sep 15 2011 11:48 AM
WoodyJ wrote:
Fender openly and proudly advertises that their 1960
Custom Shop Stratocasters have Madagascar Rosewood
fretboards. So, why weren't they targeted as well?
ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
;)
— Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube
|
WoodyJ
Joined: Apr 05, 2006
Posts: 1534
Bethlehem, GA
|
Posted on Sep 15 2011 12:17 PM
IvanP wrote:
WoodyJ wrote:
Fender openly and proudly advertises that their 1960
Custom Shop Stratocasters have Madagascar Rosewood
fretboards. So, why weren't they targeted as well?
ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
;)
Yes Ivan, mum's the word...I just bought one so don't tell anybody! 
— Jack
aka WoodyJ
The Mariners (1964-68, 1996-2005)
The Hula Hounds (1996-current)
The X-Rays (1997-2004)
The Surge! (2004, 2011-2012)
Various non-surf bands that actually made money (1978-1990)
|
IvanP
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 10321
southern Michigan
|
Posted on Sep 20 2011 11:11 AM
|
FritzCat
Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 668
Sonoma, CA
|
Posted on Sep 20 2011 03:17 PM
"...illegal loggers evade environmental and trade laws and sell their products more cheaply than law-abiding companies can"
This past weekend I was chatting with someone who works for a well-known music manufacturer and I asked if they were affected by what happened to Gibson. He said no, and the problem with Gibson was that they purchased wood at a price so low that it should have raised a red flag as too good to be true, and that the reason the price was so low was because the official paperwork was faked. It appears that whoever did the purchasing at Gibson was focused only on the price and didn't consider the reason for that price, probably they were just trying to make themselves look good by saving the company a bunch of money.
Last edited: Sep 20, 2011 15:18:03
|
RobbieReverb
Joined: Feb 28, 2006
Posts: 2252
San Jose, Ca.
|
Posted on Sep 20 2011 03:29 PM
IvanP wrote:
Some interesting info in this news story, including how
both environmental and logging groups are pushing back
against Gibson to save the Lacey Act as it currently
stands:
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/182505-gibson-is-playing-a-tea-party-tune
It's amazing how all these different "angles" have come out of this. I would have never thought that domestic logging concerns would take a stand against Gibson, but I see how they feel that they cannot complete with illegal wood.
Ambiguously written laws are wreaking havoc in so many areas. I've spent my career in the building industry, and lately, we've had some ambiguously written laws in California (AB1953- no lead law, and this year's Cal Green code) that are causing huge problems for the plumbing industry. The intent of these California laws and codes are good, but they are so ambiguously written that California companies are scared to death of going through that to which Gibson has been subjected. So far, many of the local building inspectors are not enforcing the laws, because they are as confused by the ambiguities as the people and businesses required to comply to these laws.
Bob
— Bob
|
April Birthdays 
