djangodeadman wrote:

That's because of the Hungarian Minor and Byzantine
scales.

Ahhhhh. The secret is in the scale used.

Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

Last edited: Apr 25, 2011 15:56:19

Noel wrote:

It's the mastery of the Byzantine scale that enables
you to learn to cover an entire Ventures side in one
hour.

Rev

Actually it was closer to 45 minutes... and most of it was the minor pentatonic scale! Those Venture lads could sure do a lot with that scale.

Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

Last edited: Apr 25, 2011 15:55:59

Martin's mixing pentatonic (blues), mixolydian & chromatic scales on that one. I doubt he was thinking, "now I'll play a flat 3rd to major 3rd, and follow it with a chromatic run..." He's playing what sounds good. Nice solo.

Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

revhank wrote:

Martin's mixing pentatonic (blues), mixolydian &
chromatic scales on that one. I doubt he was thinking,
"now I'll play a flat 3rd to major 3rd, and follow it
with a chromatic run..." He's playing what sounds
good. Nice solo.

Rev

Well, I was joking about using the Byzantine scale. But, I have this cap by The Dry Branch Fire Squad; "Genuine Thought Repellent Cap." The idea behind it is that to play those blistering banjo or mandolin solos really fast without getting behind, lost or stuck, you can't think about it. The music just has to flow out; sort of like how if you try to think out how to ride a bicycle (or surfboard) while doing it you'll fall becuase you're soon far behind what's happening under you.

My guitar teacher tells me I think too much about what to play next because I don't know enought yet to just play it (it's why I have to memmorize each and every tune's solo note for note), so I have to learn a lot more. We'll be working next on the minor pentatonic scale and memorizing the stock riffs that use it. I know it'll be boring and familiar to experienced players but it will be a step forward for me.

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Noel, you've got the right idea, you've got to go through all those steps to get to the mountaintop. Just keep practicing and always remember that you're not playing exercises, you're playing music! But exercises sure help to get you to the point where you can play the music you hear in your heard and feel in your heart.

Number9, Martin is indeed an excellent guitarist, and that is a great solo. I think it's more of a country/rockabilly style solo, though it definitely works in the surf context, too. I must say I never much cared for that song, as it just kinda seems to be designed to be a showcase for Martin's soloing, but I guess when you can solo that well, why not?

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
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I consider Martin's solo very far from surf. In fact, it may be the opposite of surf music. It's a little bit country and a little bit rock 'n roll.

IvanP wrote:

Thanks, Rev, but, but... all my solos are composed!

Composed or improvised, they are mighty fine! It's the end result that matters.

Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

Has anyone thought of writing/arranging surf instros to feature each instrument, the way jazz ensembles do? The way the Ventures did in live shows? The features don't have to be improvs, but they could be. It should be possible to do this and completely preserve the surf sound without drifting into blues/jazz/oldies/country/rockabilly phrasing.

The more I've thought about the original question and read this discussion, the more I think it may be worth experimenting with this.

I've never played surf with anyone else (I've got to solve that problem somehow), but when you guys get together to rehearse, do you ever just jam around for fun and take turns playing surfy themes, the way musicians in other genres do?

When I stare at ocean surf, I see something that is never exactly the same two seconds in a row, no two waves, no two sounds. It is new and different every momment. Maybe a performance can capture that within a tune and not just between them.

Now, as I am new learning guitar and surf music at the same time, I admit I may have the chutzpah of ignorance combined with just enough understanding to be stupid. Still, now that it was brought up, I keep imagining what a completely surf jam session would sound like, and I want to hear it. I'm just not good enough to play it.

This is Noel. Reverb's at maximum an' I'm givin' 'er all she's got.

Thinking more about this, there have so many great soloists in surf music. One of my favorite surf solos ever is by Dick Dale, on Night Rider - check it out at the 1:12 mark: http://youtu.be/Ldda-TrV1Z8
Not bluesy, not self-indulgent, very rhythmic, pure surf - this is the s#!+! That song without that solo would be much, much weaker.

Another great soloist was Rich Fifield of the Astronauts. Check out Quasimoto, around 1:10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KYqKmkeES0
Or Surfs You Right, at 0:30 and then again at 1:35 - HOT! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KYqKmkeES0 You go, Rich! (In fact, that last song is just a fantastic showcase of his playing abilities, which were considerable.) Or finally, their fantastic Scotch and Guitar, starting at 0:40, for an extended (almost a minute long!) and supremely moody, tasty, bluesy solo: http://youtu.be/3o6kJtDc4XA Again, this song without that solo would have been pretty much nothing.

One final example: the Trashmen. Full of great solos, my favorite probably being Malaguena: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipinrujp5sk
Check it out starting at 1:03, and again at 2:05 (here you can really tell where Evan Foster of the Boss Martians got his sound and his licks!). Or Tube City, starting at 1:20 (another longer solo, 30 seconds): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A59CH1MFq5I

Many excellent soloists in the '60s surf music - even more in the past 20-30 years! Long live the solo in surf music!

Ivan
Lords of Atlantis on Facebook
The Madeira Official Website
The Madeira on Facebook
The Blair-Pongracic Band on Facebook
The Space Cossacks on Facebook
The Madeira Channel on YouTube

Number9 wrote:

keep in mind you've got to serve the music
and not use the music.

So why'd you post a three minute song that's just framework for a two minute guitar solo?

IvanP wrote:

Dick Dale - "Nitro Fuel"
Eddie Bertrand (Eddie & the Showmen) - "Scratch" (http://youtu.be/-AaT0KfB1wA - the original version is not on YouTube)
The Atlantics - "Stomping Time"
Rich Fifield (Astronauts) - "Quasimoto," "Surfs You Right" & "Scotch and Guitar"

Let's keep the list going:

Randy Holden (Fender IV) - "Highway Surfer"
Jim Messina (Jesters) - "Suspense Run"
Al Nichol (Crossfires) - "Fiberglass Jungle"
Jim Fuller (Surfaris) - "Point Panic"
Paul Johnson (PJ & the Galaxies) - "Andele" (not the original)
Jim Ferguson (Avengers VI) - "The Avengers Stomp"
Johnny Fortune - Too many to list
Gene Moles - "Kala Huna"
Jerry Cole - "Point Panic"

Michael Lloyd of the New Dimensions had some fiery leads but I'm blanking on which songs they were from.

That was excessively violent and completely unnecessary. I loved it.

Last edited: Apr 28, 2011 18:04:51