WR
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
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Posted on Nov 18 2006 03:36 AM
Hey Guys,
this is an off-spin from the memberscomp2006 thread, Ill repost the first messages here, and let's discuss some home-recording drum and drummachine tricks! Of course, other drummers chiming in would be greatly appreciated!
WR, discussing Ron Rhoades comp submission,
And sound is nice too. btw, is it a drumcomputer or live drums? you did well with that. btw Im amazed at how some people can get very decent sounds from that (in fact I allready stole one little drumcomputer trick from your track, even if that's drumcomputer!)
and then Ron Rhoades in reply
WR......I used a drum machine on this track. An Alesis SR-16. I recorded this demo some years ago and it was meant to be just that...a demo....but i'm not afraid to use whatever sounds good, or whatever i have to make music. I'm also a drummer so i can program it pretty good but on this song i just made a simple beat to back up the Mel Torme melody!!! ... Now days i use both man and machine to make drum tracks. I sample my kik snr toms and can paste them wherever i need to to make it sound more like a real drummer although i'm pretty good at drumming with a "click" trak it's just easier to work this way on my demos.When people ask me if i used a drum machine on something i take that as a compliment. ...
and he also
WR...If you (or anybody) ever need any help with drums or anything let me know. It's a modern world and amazing links can be made. I've been a musician and producer for at least 30 years and would love to hand down the techniques and stuff that i learned from older guys when i was a kid. I paid attention when doing sessions and learned a lot on my own just by watching and asking questions and i would love to share it with others. Just ask!
R-R
and then DP chimed in and
RR:
...I am really digging the "drumkomputer" "elektrodrum" "drummachine" sub-thead that WR and yourself have developed...
perhaps we can start a discussion re: Komputerdrumtechnik over in the "Recording" area?...I for one am a long-time Komputerdrumutilizer, ever since Kraftwerk's "Autobahn" and the The Eurythmics "1984" I have been working with good old DrRhythm and other drummachines...just call me Herr Komputerdrumprogrammer, I guess...
anyway, any tips, tricks, suggestions or comments on Electrodrumkomputerprogramutilization would be welcome.
Not that real drums are bad...they're great!...but, I accepted the reality of Programmedrummers way back during the last century...just another tool in the toolbox, I always say...
— Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."
https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/
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Kojack
Joined: Jul 29, 2006
Posts: 106
Menomonie, Wisconsin USA
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Posted on Nov 18 2006 07:48 AM
I'm looking to learn alot about "surf-specific" practices in this thread. In the interim, let me offer a general (and very simple) recording tip for getting a slightly more organic sound from a drum machine.
Rather than running the drum machine directly to tape, run it into your home stereo system and stereo mic your speakers. It makes a difference to the sound when you can record some air moving and catch some of the room ambience.
Try it for yourself. If your ears like it, you've got a cheap option for enlivening your drum machine tracks.
Kojack
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11041
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Nov 18 2006 10:06 AM
I run my SR16 into a ..................gasp! OUTBOARD REVERB UNIT 
I split the signal and run one dry into the recorder and one wet onto another track. I give a stereo spread and mix the levels till it sounds good. I'm no expert, but I suspect the Astronauts had outboard reverb on a drum to get their sound.
— Danny Snyder
"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
Playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
Formerly a guitarist in The TomorrowMen and Meshugga Beach Party
Latest surf project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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Joelman
Joined: Sep 07, 2006
Posts: 1481
Redlands, CA
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Posted on Nov 18 2006 11:46 AM
Well I just bought a Alesis SR16 a few days back. I have been reading the manuals that came with it, and so far I can play the demo. 
I seem to be missing the instruction part that allows a person to make their own drum string with out using a pre programed one from the unit. 
Any help will be welcome.
Joel
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diceophonic
Joined: May 20, 2006
Posts: 2171
PacNW (Vancouver, Wa U.S.A.)
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Posted on Nov 18 2006 01:19 PM
DannySnyder
I suspect the Astronauts had outboard reverb on a drum to get their sound.
Danny your on to something  I use to have this old school 16 channel mixer from the late 60s with built in reverb and when I would move the mixer from 1 place to another I can hear springs and that also reminds me that I have heard non surf music, music from the late 60s with that spring reverb sound to the whole recording, I know some studios in the 60s had echo chambers, I have seen the echo chambers @ Capitol records in Hollywood they are under ground spooky, they almost remind me of racket ball courts all cement.
— -Kyle
Beyond The Surf YouTube channel
Beyond The Surf Instagram
The Verbtones @ Instagram
The Verbtones @ Facebook
The Verbtones @ bandcamp
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Ron-Rhoades
Joined: Aug 19, 2006
Posts: 958
Kekaha, Kauai, Hawaii
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Posted on Nov 19 2006 03:57 AM
Kojack....That's a great idea! and by trying stuff like that is how you can come up with original kind of sounds. Like you said...try moving the mics around untill you find something cool.You know, close mic it...then try farther away...over here...over there. Man, i love learning tricks like that. I've done that with vocals and guitars but never thought to try the drums. I would only try that on a surf tune 
Here's a little trick that you've probably tried, but if not....try making 2 pads (SR-16) the same kik sound but lower the volume on one and program every other, or every third beat on that second pad.Same can be tried with the snare and hihat. Drummers don't hit every beat with the same velocity and that can be applied to a machine as well. But you gotta use a REAL DRUMMER whenever you can. Look up "free drum loops" in your search engine and play around with some of those.Like DannySnyder, try different reverb settings. They say it's not brain surgery....but it is!!
Joel....i'm giving you a couple more days to play around with it cause i think you'll figure it out, but if you don't.....someone will help. Right?
— The TakeOffs
"Kauai's Only All-Instrumental Surf Band"
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-TakeOffs/312866840587
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Nov 19 2006 08:54 PM
so, how do you make a decent drum roll on a drum machine? mine always come out sounding...well, mechanical...
i have attempted various combinations of attack volume for each hit in the roll, and even tried accenting hits within a roll...anstill no luck.
i think the timing of a programmed roll ends up too precise...the roll doesn't seem to "breathe"...
any suggestions?
-dp
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Ron-Rhoades
Joined: Aug 19, 2006
Posts: 958
Kekaha, Kauai, Hawaii
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Posted on Nov 21 2006 05:57 AM
dp.....I gave up on drum rolls on a machine unless it's really simple cause it does sound too mechanical.If you're just doing demos you might not need rolls and if you ever record the tune use a drummer (duh, that's a no brainer) or maybe the internal rolls depending on what machine you're using but i'm sure you've thought of, or, tried that already. It's late....i'm having breakfast rolls. 
The other side is....who cares if it sounds mechanical.Before too long everything is going to sound mechanical.......just turn on the radio!! 
— The TakeOffs
"Kauai's Only All-Instrumental Surf Band"
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-TakeOffs/312866840587
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WR
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 3832
netherlands
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Posted on Dec 01 2006 05:23 AM
dp
so, how do you make a decent drum roll on a drum machine? mine always come out sounding...well, mechanical...
i have attempted various combinations of attack volume for each hit in the roll, and even tried accenting hits within a roll...anstill no luck.
i think the timing of a programmed roll ends up too precise...the roll doesn't seem to "breathe"...
any suggestions?
-dp
well, here's my experience from foolin' around yesterday evening for the comp track.
I used a drumcomputer I downloaded from the net for free. ddt-10 or something along those lines. it's quite tweakable, but not that good. anyway, comparing thjis thing's results with what I heard from affordable drumcomputers from others I decided the little bit of extra quality wasn't worth the investment for me.
okay, what I did for drumrolls was assign two of the available drumtracks to snare, with a slightly different sound, set the one track (the one that does the nromal drums) to normal rhythm patterns with accent's (only two preset levels available!) on 1/5/9/13 16th and alternating on 1/7/13 16th (alternating between 4/4 and 3-3-2 8/8 rhytms).
the second snare track I put on little volume (just a bit of toping), let it play the full 16 16ths, but assigned accents completly random.
then I used quite a bit of the built-in reverb. and the machine has a "swing" switch, witch takes everything slightly off-rhytm. and I put it low in the mix.
I was pleased with the results.
Im not saying the drumrolls sound good, Im just saying they sound less bad then the rest of the drums 
WR
— Rules to live by #314:
"When in Italy, if the menu says something's grilled, don't assume it is."
https://www.facebook.com/The-Malbehavers-286429584796173/
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dp
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 3546
mojave desert, california
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Posted on Dec 01 2006 10:21 AM
WR:
yes...that magic "swing" switch...other drummachines have similar switches that add a bit of "life" or "breathing room" or "groove" to the drumkomputer track...unfortunately, mine is a pre-swing/groove-switch model!
i think i will give the "alternating snare tone with accents" another try...your suggestion sounds intriguing.
thanks!
-dp
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cirecc
Joined: Mar 06, 2006
Posts: 304
seattle, wa
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Posted on Dec 10 2006 01:39 PM
DannySnyder
I run my SR16 into a ..................gasp! OUTBOARD REVERB UNIT
I split the signal and run one dry into the recorder and one wet onto another track. I give a stereo spread and mix the levels till it sounds good. I'm no expert, but I suspect the Astronauts had outboard reverb on a drum to get their sound.
We (The 'Verb) actually used my '65 reverb tank on the dtums for a track when we were in the studio in the summer, for the rest we used hte plate reverb because it was clenaer, my tank is very bright and has some gain to it.
eric
— -Eric
New music!
https://thedesolatecoast.bandcamp.com/releases
Spotify
Also:
https://theverb.bandcamp.com/
https://www.facebook.com/theverbseattle/
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JakeDobner
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 12159
Seattle
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Posted on Dec 13 2006 08:44 AM
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