MissingLink
Joined: Jul 23, 2008
Posts: 488
Edge of the East China Sea
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 10:19 AM
Perhaps this should really be titled, "What pedals are best for surf?" Lately, I've been wondering about the distinctive sounds of my favorite surf bands. Although Fender amps and guitars predominate, it's clear that bands like The Surfites, Surf Coasters, Hawaii Samurai, Bomboras, and many others all sound identifiably like themselves. I, on the other hand, play a few different guitars through a couple of amps, and sound like... well, I'm not sure what, but I sure don't sound like the Surfites or Space Cossacks! It's not just the vast chasm between their talent level and mine; it's also about the nature of the_ sound_ coming out of the speakers. We're all using reverb, but what else do people mix in there?
It seems a truism that reverb and distortion don't mix well. And I've found that a lot of tremolo cancels out the effect of double picking, while adding some echo adds depth to the reverb. I own no pedals at all, although my practice amp is a digital job with numerous 'voices' and effects. From the standpoint of someone who plays almost nothing but surf, which effects have you all found to be the most worthwhile?
|
elreydlp
Joined: Sep 04, 2009
Posts: 1800
Temecula, CA
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 10:39 AM
I like Delays and Rotary Speaker effects. For Distortions and Overdrives, I back off on the 'verb a bit.
|
morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 10:49 AM
I've recently added tremolo and fuzz, but the ones that really get my ideal surf sound are some echo and a little overdrive.
image
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
|
killbabykill34
Joined: Apr 03, 2010
Posts: 3201
Jacksonville, AL
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 11:33 AM
It really all comes down to personal taste, in my opinion. I run a Boss FRV-1 for reverb. On top of that, I have an Ibanez Tube Screamer that runs, pretty much, constantly. I have tremolo that is used when needed and an echo machine that is also used for effect when needed. All blend quite well when used appropriatly for the mood of the musical piece.
I have, to this day, been curious about phaser. I know that Causey uses it in Man or Astro-man?, but it is obviously very subtile.
— THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.
www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal
|
D22
Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 2054
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 11:48 AM
Like morphball I use the MXR delay and it sounds great. You have to dime back the regeneration so it doesn't get washy but it's really nice.
—
|
hlieboff59
Joined: Jun 27, 2008
Posts: 576
Marlboro, New Jersey
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 12:36 PM
hey morphball, I see you have the tuner first, cool cat transparent overdrive and then fuzz pedal. You get a fuzz too from the cool cat TO, but why do you use the Cool Cat TO for, sort of a volume pedal? does that enhance the reverb tank?? just curious.
|
morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 01:48 PM
hlieboff59
hey morphball, I see you have the tuner first, cool cat transparent overdrive and then fuzz pedal. You get a fuzz too from the cool cat TO, but why do you use the Cool Cat TO for, sort of a volume pedal? does that enhance the reverb tank?? just curious.
The Cool Cat TO I wouldn't really classify as a fuzz at all (not my definition anyway), I just use it for a slight overdrive, since getting the volume past 2 isn't an option for me right now. (I probably wouldn't use it otherwise.) And of course a dedicated fuzz is a completely different vibe, so it never gets used while the TO is on anyway.
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
|
topsail
Joined: Jun 10, 2009
Posts: 317
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 02:57 PM
Personally, I seldom use any effects with heavy reverb.
I do use a delay and tube type screamer other times though (reverb off).
Last edited: Nov 15, 2010 17:57:33
|
badash
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 1732
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 03:06 PM
Reverb has delay built in. It's how it works! But tremolo can be nice, though there is a huge perceived volume drop to me with both individually so you put them together and I feel like I need to turn up a lot. As to Dirt pedals, just listen to the first Van Halen album, even if you have to force yourself His sound is distortion (natural mostly), phasers, flangers, and reverb, mostly in the form of playing in a big live room, at least that's what it sounds like to me. Dirt and doppler pedals work great with reverb to my ear.
|
SnorkelMonkey
Joined: Nov 11, 2010
Posts: 26
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 03:08 PM
Up until very recently on slow stuff I sometimes used echo into spring reverb for a more spacial sound. Faster stuff it was usually one or the other. Once in a while a fuzz tone for a retro song or two. I also like to occasionally use a volume pedal. Oh yeah (^) tremolo. I use the amps tremolo a lot.
— Electro Echo Chamber, The Technical Side Of Time Based Effects. Echo, Reverb, Delay, Analog, Digial, And More...
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/electroechochamber/
|
MissingLink
Joined: Jul 23, 2008
Posts: 488
Edge of the East China Sea
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 05:04 PM
Thanks for the input, guys. Seems to be a general agreement about the usefulness of echo/delay.
|
badash
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 1732
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 05:28 PM
MissingLink
Thanks for the input, guys. Seems to be a general agreement about the usefulness of echo/delay.
Well maybe I'm the only one who doesn't feel that way, but reverb is mostly echo. In fact, I'm almost as comfortable with a delay pedal as a reverb pedal if I can't have a tank in a lot of cases. Read a description of how a Reverb tank works. Lots of folks I've talked to think sound goes into a small tank, bounces around, and makes an echo effect... Ain't so. Adding delay is not that very different from turning up your Dwell and mix knob.
If you really think it's a truism that distortion and reverb don't go together it will come as a huge surprise to Neil Young. He's so serious about his reverb tank that he cuts a hole in the stage so his tank can sit on a cement floor and not be affected by stage vibrations. It's more true to say that distortion isn't embraced by the Surf community. But reverb wasn't created for Surf. It was just embraced by surf as an almost fundamental requirement.
Not trying to pick a fight. Just saying that if somebody has to make gear decisions, with a limited budget, adding a delay pedal to your arsenal may not be the best choice if you already have a tank. A great Fuzz. A great Tremolo. Heck, I'd find more use for a volume pedal than delay if I'm going for a surf sound. Assuming I already have a tank.
|
BeachBumScott
Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 352
The Ranch, CO
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 06:32 PM
After my lesson on the difference between Vibrato and Tremolo (thanks guy's).
I started to do some reading about different pedals thinking maybe I should get a Echo pedal, then was confused about the difference between Echo and Delay....
I read this which compares Echo vs Delay vs Reverb, simple enough that even I now understand.
http://makeshiftmusician.blogspot.com/2008/05/difference-between-reverb-and-echo.html
— "Maybe there aren't any surf bands; there's only surf music?" Tuck
|
MissingLink
Joined: Jul 23, 2008
Posts: 488
Edge of the East China Sea
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 07:37 PM
badash
Well maybe I'm the only one who doesn't feel that way, but reverb is mostly echo. In fact, I'm almost as comfortable with a delay pedal as a reverb pedal if I can't have a tank in a lot of cases.
If you really think it's a truism that distortion and reverb don't go together it will come as a huge surprise to Neil Young.... It's more true to say that distortion isn't embraced by the Surf community.
Badash, I see what you're saying, and I'd agree that slapback, for example, makes a passable substitute for reverb. I've always thought of reverb as a more subtle version of echo, with the distinction being that the echoes from a tank are so closely spaced as to be inseparable to human ears -- like the difference between speaking in a room with natural reverb or yelling into the mountains and hearing your voice come back. The article cited by BeachBumScott actually quantifies this difference as 30 milliseconds; I didn't know that before, but there's certainly a point at which you can start to hear the delay between a signal and its return. For me, anyway, that's when 'reverb' becomes 'echo'.
The reverberations produced in spring reverb must be relatively subtle. As an experiment, I once took the pan out of my reverb unit, turned it upside down in order to see the springs and then strummed a few notes into it. Although I'd expected to see the springs 'boinging' around all over the place, there was no discernible movement accompanying the reverberated sound. (Kinda bummed out by that.)
You also make a good point about the distortion. It's certainly possible to hear at least an overdriven sound being used to good effect in surf; Morphball's recent version of 'Intruder' demonstrates that very well. I said "seems to be a truism" because, even in spite of successful examples of crunchy-sounding surf, I've read this opinion explicitly stated several times. Presumably, this has something to do with where different people draw their 'overdrive vs. distortion' lines. I can say that if I switch the modeling amp to mimic a Metalhead-type of amp with very high-gain scooped sounds, the effect of the tank is mostly lost. That's an extreme amount of distortion though, and not something we'd usually deal with in a surf context.
|
SnorkelMonkey
Joined: Nov 11, 2010
Posts: 26
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 08:53 PM
I'd agree that slapback, for example, makes a passable substitute for reverb.
I agree too to a point. It lacks the long decay time of halls, plates, and spring reverbs though.
My most recent setup is a combo of Echoplex set for reverb to get the spring like "boink" and a Boss RV-2 for longer decay and depth. The RV-2 has a setting call "room" that is very spring reverb like with it's dark reflections, depth, and decay but lacks the "boink" of a spring reverb unit. The combo is pretty convincing all be it cleaner than your typical spring reverb unit (which I like a lot btw). I also like it because with a twist of a knob I can do those long "wicked game" hall reverbs, stomp off the RV-2 and the Plex is already in slap back mode I just turn down the repeats and go man go!
— Electro Echo Chamber, The Technical Side Of Time Based Effects. Echo, Reverb, Delay, Analog, Digial, And More...
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/electroechochamber/
|
zzero
Joined: Jul 09, 2010
Posts: 1153
Lillian Alabama
|
Posted on Nov 15 2010 09:51 PM
got to have reverb--tank or pedal or amp's built-in unit and tremolo. the rest is gravy--use delay or fuzz or whatever 'cuz it's your choice. i tend to use the amp's natural distortion instead of a pedal but i do like to play with delay pedals. i tend to play more 1st wave anyway but that's what works for me.
— Enjoying the surf,sun and sand!!
|
da-ron
Joined: Jan 02, 2009
Posts: 1297
The original Plymouth, UK.
|
Posted on Nov 16 2010 07:38 AM
I've never used any effects until I started playing surf, which required a good reverb. I bought a Tremelo pedal (Surf Trem) but could never figure out whether Trem goes before Reverb, or what. I also lack the patience or motivation to experiment with pedals - I'd rather play the guitar than play with pedals!
I think if it's 1st wave sound you're after it's pretty much tank and amp - a good amp helps, I think.
MoAM are selling their own range of pedals, although they are selling pretty quick.
— http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/
|
morphball
Joined: Dec 23, 2008
Posts: 3324
Pittsboro, NC
|
Posted on Nov 16 2010 07:46 AM
da-ron
I bought a Tremelo pedal (Surf Trem) but could never figure out whether Trem goes before Reverb, or what.
Reverb should be dead last in the signal chain right before the amp, especially spring & tube driven reverb.
— Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio
|
mad_dog
Joined: Sep 23, 2008
Posts: 349
Montclair, NJ
|
Posted on Nov 16 2010 08:16 AM
Delay plus clean boost into reverb.
MD
|
Strat-o-rama
Joined: Oct 23, 2007
Posts: 385
Boca Raton, Florida
|
Posted on Nov 16 2010 08:19 AM
Here is a good example of overdrive-reverb tank-delay all used together at the same time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVCZNfTbiF8
At the beginning, you can see Rick fine tune his tank, and at the end you can hear the slap back on the final chord.
|