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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Recording Corner »

Permalink What do you recommend for drums in lieu of acoustic drums?

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there is a free drum machine program to download called hammerhead, and at least it has a cool name.... i'm using fruity loops to come up with some stuff at the moment.

learn to sample and loop stuff old skool stuff like surfaris, then jam along. i have used anything i can get my hands on, including midi loops and distorting them.

but if i could find a real drummer i would prefer it anytime!!!

u guys with real surf drummers are blessed, i'd say.

adam

hand claps

http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/rockinrio.delrosa

http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/TheHighTides

http://www.facebook.com/?sk=lf#!/pages/The-Blue-Demons

i had that zoom 123 unit a few years back and you are right: programming it is weird for some reason. the factory beats sound good but not really for surf. for those who use ez drummer, bfd and other software based drummers, i would love to see some links of tunes recorded with these programs.

I use an Akai MPC for a number of varied projects (none Hip Hop!). I find it to be a real work horse, and as its a sampler it sounds as good as the source material. The sequencer is pretty intuitive. Set up time is really quick, meaning I don't have to spend ages at a gig getting it up and running.

Having said all that, I prefer playing with a drummer. A drum machine is really just a glorified metronome. There is no "conversation" going on between the musicians.

Alaric
I use an Akai MPC for a number of varied projects (none Hip Hop!). I find it to be a real work horse, and as its a sampler it sounds as good as the source material. The sequencer is pretty intuitive. Set up time is really quick, meaning I don't have to spend ages at a gig getting it up and running.

Having said all that, I prefer playing with a drummer. A drum machine is really just a glorified metronome. There is no "conversation" going on between the musicians.

That's a nice piece of kit, I just couldn't justify spending that much on a drum machine though. Totally agree that you just can't beat a real set (bad pun); my SR-16 is going in the closet for a real kit if I ever get a house with a basement.

Mike
http://www.youtube.com/morphballio

image

I still use the trusty BOSS Dr Rhythm...both the DR-770 and older DR-550...
both can be programmed either real-time or step-wise...

image

Last edited: Mar 24, 2010 15:47:19

The advantage of a drum machine over a drummer is that you only have to punch the instructions in once...

And can you get them to speed up like all good rock n roll?

Seriously, we considered one for when our drummer was not available so we could still rehearse but decided against it as its very different to playing with a drummer.

How about recording a drummer and playing live with the recording? would that work?

http://thewaterboarders.bandcamp.com/

I used a Boss DR-770 for awhile, but I'm liking EZdrummer a lot better. The visual aspect really helps me when editing patterns, etc..., and the kits sound nice.

Mike

manfromravcon.com

Last edited: Mar 24, 2010 19:02:51

this old Combo Sideman from Realistic is pretty groovy.
Very similar to the drums found on Wurlitzer organs at grandma's house.

image

Wow that's a neat looking box Cool

Check these out, seriously:
http://www.xlnaudio.com/?page=products&p_page=adpaks&i_page=retro
http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/powered-by-kontakt/abbey-road-60s-drums/?page=1268

They sound great. Coupled with a DAW, today's sample packs offer way more flexibility than we dreamed of in the '80, and soundwise they're awesome.

Reinforced with http://www.rayzoon.com/jamstix2_vid.html,
I'm having lots of fun, learning a lot.
And I can totally say, that without a question, there is no doubt...
...
I need a drummer Rolling Eyes

I suggest a program called BFD2. It has about 70 classic and modern kits sampled. When I say sampled, I mean it has almost every type of stroke possible, at 167 different velocitys. Steve Albini did the recording and they also recorded them with tons of different classic and modern studio mics. I challenge anyone to listen to a recording using this and tell that it is not live drumming...Well, my recordings are. I use an electronic set to record midi and then run the midi files through this. It even has bleedover and other issues that come with live drum recording. Sadly, it is a very hefty price. Over 500 dollars for the software and it takes a hell of a machine to run it. It loads every sample into your ram for the kit you build so that they can be instantly accessed without any latency. Look it up on google and check out their sample tracks. YOu will be amazed.

THE KBK ... This is the last known signal. We offer Sanctuary.

www.thekbk.com
http://www.deepeddy.net/artists/thekbk/
www.reverbnation.com/thekbk
www.facebook.com/thekbkal

I've dicked around with sampled drums quite a bit, I think the technology has improved quite a bit, things don't necessarily sound so obviously drum-machiney as they did back when, and while there'll always be a difference, I think you can fake it well enough to fool a lot of people, if not yourself.

All of this assumes mostly computer-based stuff, but if you choose to go that route, I can make some suggestions:

1) Get to know controllers: midi-pads, keyboards, drum triggers, all have foibles and quirks. The controllers are your best chance at doing "live" sampled drums, as if you turn off the quantize function, then any timing errors or "character" if you want to call it that, is going to be your own. Hitting a drum too hard, too soft, this is all in the controller, whereas point-and-click quantization or beat-mapping has a more roboticky feel;

2) Multi-track the bejebus out of your "kit": most sample drum-applications come with groups pre-collected, might even be the same drumkit in real life recorded in the same space with the same mic, which is nice, theoretically, but when you aren't actually confronted with the necessity of arguing with a real, live, drooling, dope-smoking, raw-meat-eating drummer, in my experience, you're going to get picky as hell about your sounds (although, if programming is a necessity, and not a pleasure, you may just wanna get it over with, in which case, this may not apply to you), and being able to tweak volume, signal strength, processing, panning, etc., on an individual track, rather than messing with the sample-application settings (which are often applied globally, rather than to an individual virtual instrument) makes things a lot more satisfying;

3) Process the crap out of your drum-sounds. This sounds counter-intuitive for surf, which tends to limit the amount of horsing around with signal that you experience, but recording live drums involves this huge number of environmental variables, mics, placement, compression, natural vs. wired reverb/delay, phasing, yada-yada, and punching in plug-ins and tweaking them, sometimes past the point where the drums sound "naturally" recorded, can have a better overall effect than trying to keep it clean and simple when you're obviously using an artificial medium;

4) Totally analog it up: I only used it for a break, but programming my samples, then playing them through an amp in a natural space (laptop>amp) and mic'ing the results gave me, for about 8 beats, some of the most awesome sounding non-live drums I've ever recorded;

5) Mess with it: there is a habit, with programming, to put your effort into a pattern, and then re-use that pattern. Real, live, mentally-unbalanced, compulsive, anger-management-issues-having drummers aren't usually thrilled playing 8 minutes of the same rhythm, exactly, perfectly, invariably, and are noted for messing around with stuff on the fly. Regular jackoffs may not notice tiny little details, not necessarily fills, or riffs, or solos, or anything, but I have a rule, whenever I use a pattern repeatedly, to change each instance of that pattern, even if only by one note. To my ear, it makes a world of difference, even if you're not trying to fool the listener into thinking you have a real drummer, but if you're trying to not convey the impression that everything's online.

Anyway, this is what I've learned. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers,
The Damnthing

"Anythin' worth doin's worth overdoin'."
-Louis Bert Lindley

Hey gang. If you guys don't like the feel of a drum machine there is a deal called the "Russian-Dragon" that pushes and pulls ever so slightly. I got to use one on stage with the Surfaris at some county fair shows for tempos and to count songs in.

Jeff Utterback

Bumping an old thread here:

Another option for recording is doing an internet collaboration kinda thing. Record your tracks and upload them. A drummer could download them and record him/her self playing along, and send the results back to you. If the drums need to come in on the downbeat or before, just make sure there's a 4 count (or whatever time signature) so they know when to come in.

I've got a Roland electric kit I could use for this but I don't yet have the MIDI cables to connect it to my recording rig. I can record the audio outs, and the Roland kit has some good drum samples built in. Cymbals won't sound so great though. No sampled cymbals are really any good in my opinion. If I had the midi cables, you'd be able to use your own samples.

Heads up for anyone using Reaper Software DAW.

FREE 1960s Ludwig Drumkit

876MB or 1.9GB of one-shot drum (.wav) samples plus the template which evokes Reaper's drum sequencer (Mega Baby) with a single click of the file.

Freaking stupendous !

I use Steven Slate Essentials, which only has one or two kits but has pretty much been perfect for my sound. Slots right into Reaper as a VST and only costs about $20 USD.

"Stop Me Before I Surf Again" at Band Camp.com

It won't be good for recording, but I use a traveling bag, inspired by Martin Cilia's drummer

Dead_Gremmie wrote:

I use Steven Slate Essentials, which only has one or two kits but has pretty much been perfect for my sound. Slots right into Reaper as a VST and only costs about $20 USD.

Looks good I might give it a whirl.
I'm trying MT Power Drumkit VST - discontinued product available for free.

EZ Drummer 2 by Toontrack is pretty great.
I just watched a demo video over the drummer's shoulder that I'm on tour with at the moment.
Pretty impressive options

https://www.toontrack.com/product/ezdrummer-2/

Cheers,
Jeff

http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyacesrock
http://www.reverbnation.com/crazyacesmusic

Often, trying to make drum parts without being a drummer is like trying to make horn parts without being a horn player. It's not too hard to learn a bit about how a drummer goes about his business, and apply that.

When the most popular song I ever wrote got recorded by a band, the drum part changed completely because the drummer literally couldn't play the part as written. That was partly because he didn't have enough technique, but also partly because it wasn't written the way a drummer would have played it.

For myself, on the technical side, I have 2 drum machines. One is an old Roland R-5, which has a live input method and the switches on the front are velocity sensitive. So I can input a rhythm directly instead of step by step. I also have a Roland TD-10 hooked up to a set of pads I made myself (much easier than you think). That one I play more like a drummer, though I'm not all that good. Also, it gives the children something to bash on.

Would I prefer a live drummer? Sure, I would. But mostly my music time comes in fits and starts and later in the day.

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