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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Bass Vi Trem Use

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How often do you use the trem on your Bass VI?

Never. Leave it in the case except for photos & demonstrating the instrument to friends.

image

--
Project: MAYHEM by Hypersonic Secret now available!

Last edited: Mar 02, 2023 14:04:47

I can't decide if I want to hardtail it or not.

futureboy wrote:

I can't decide if I want to hardtail it or not.

The tone might improve slightly if you hardtail it. If you don't use the trem, you might as well go that route.

Almost every time I play. You need to have a usable vibrato though. The easiest way is to put a Mastery vibrato (not a Mastery bridge!) on the instrument if it's a Squier. If it's a vintage instrument or the Japanese reissue, you're probably good to go.
As for making it hard tail or trying to turn it into something "more like a regular bass", never understood the point (just play a regular bass if that's what you're after), but to each their own.

Ran

The Scimitars

Ran, will a stock AVRI trem fit the Squier VI?

Anyway, here's what I did to mine shortly after it came in:
Smoothed this part
image
And smoothed this part (that elongated nut inside the collet spring)
image
I think it's better, but still meh...

Hi Ariel,
The AVRI trem will fit, but it won't solve anything (I know from experience). The AVRI springs are too weak. I have found a stiffer spring that works, but it's still not great, therefore no point in recommending it. I say get a vintage spring (usually comes with the whole unit, mega expensive), or get a Mastery unit (expensive). There was also a 60 cycle hum video where s flat material spring was used on a Panorama trem, after drilling out the center hole area, it may work as well.

Hope this helps,
Ran

Ariel wrote:

Ran, will a stock AVRI trem fit the Squier VI?

Anyway, here's what I did to mine shortly after it came in:
Smoothed this part
image
And smoothed this part (that elongated nut inside the collet spring)
image
I think it's better, but still meh...

The Scimitars

I was using it all the time when I played it. Got the Squier version and swapped out the stock vibrato unit with a MIJ one. I also threw on the LaBella flatwounds so it has more tension than the stock strings.

I was using it exclusively in a Western Swing band to do all the tic-tac stuff and a few of the George Jones songs that had it as the lead instrument. Occasionally the band I was in would get a chance to do an instrumental or two while the singer got a refill or caught his breath. Lots of vibrato usage in those moments and then any solo that needed something a little extra.

It doesn't have a very big range (could be in part to the flatwounds) but it was just a hair past subtle. I could always hear it and so could the crowd. I really dig the Bass VI.

Slightly off topic but the one thing I find really funny about the Bass VI was after shows guys who said they were guitar players would come up to enthusiastically ask about what the heck I was playing. On the other hand I had never gotten so many people who said they were bass players coming up to give me a hard time for not playing a real bass.

kick_the_reverb wrote:

Hi Ariel,
The AVRI trem will fit, but it won't solve anything (I know from experience). The AVRI springs are too weak. I have found a stiffer spring that works, but it's still not great, therefore no point in recommending it. I say get a vintage spring (usually comes with the whole unit, mega expensive), or get a Mastery unit (expensive). There was also a 60 cycle hum video where s flat material spring was used on a Panorama trem, after drilling out the center hole area, it may work as well.

Hope this helps,
Ran

Good info Ran, thanks!
Yeah, the softness is the main downside. Also I wish it had a bit more range.

I admit - not very often

Jill Martini & The Shrunken Heads

kick_the_reverb wrote:

As for making it hard tail or trying to turn it into something "more like a regular bass", never understood the point (just play a regular bass if that's what you're after), but to each their own.

Not everybody likes the feel of the 34" scale length on most modern 4- or 5-string bass guitars. I certainly don't. The 30" scale of the Bass VI is much more manageable to me, plus I can work more across the strings (like a guitar, which I'm familiar with) than up the neck (like I'd have to on a traditional bass guitar).

--
Project: MAYHEM by Hypersonic Secret now available!

Fair enough, but there are plenty of short scale bass guitars that are closer in sound and feel to a traditional 4 string bass. The Bass VI isn't geared towards sounding like a traditional bass, so it's odd to me that people try to force it to be one. No skin off my back, just wondering why there are so many people trying to do this.

Ran

chiba wrote:
__

kick_the_reverb wrote:

As for making it hard tail or trying to turn it into something "more like a regular bass", never understood the point (just play a regular bass if that's what you're after), but to each their own.

Not everybody likes the feel of the 34" scale length on most modern 4- or 5-string bass guitars. I certainly don't. The 30" scale of the Bass VI is much more manageable to me, plus I can work more across the strings (like a guitar, which I'm familiar with) than up the neck (like I'd have to on a traditional bass guitar).

The Scimitars

Hey Ran,
Thanks for the info about the trem units in the previous thread entries. I think part of the interest in hard-tailing the Bass VI is because the Mastery trem is an expensive option and I'm not sure how often I'd use it. I do have an AVRI trem in the parts bin and a yellow spring on the way. But I'm also waiting on a Staytrem collet which won't be here until the summer or so if I'm lucky. If the AVRI trem doesn't work then I'll hardtail the Bass VI and use the trem on my MIJ Jazzmaster.

The Bass VI does have a unique timbre compared to other basses. Through my current rig, with the neck and middle pickups active, it sounds like old-school funk and soul bass. Flipping to the bridge and middle, I can get the spaghetti western sounds. There are lots of sounds to be had.

I do think that any instrument can be a good mod platform. I think I've seen your posts about your microtonal Jazzmaster. I think that's awesome that you are getting new sounds out of the instrument. I'm looking forward to the official Scimitars release. I bought the Bandcamp demos.

While bass hasn't always been a main instrument of mine, I do have my sights set on a Mustang Bass as well.

kick_the_reverb wrote:

Fair enough, but there are plenty of short-scale bass guitars that are closer in sound and feel to a traditional 4 string bass. The Bass VI isn't geared toward sounding like a traditional bass, so it's odd to me that people try to force it to be one. No skin off my back, just wondering why there are so many people trying to do this.

Ran

chiba wrote:
__

kick_the_reverb wrote:

As for making it hard tail or trying to turn it into something "more like a regular bass", never understood the point (just play a regular bass if that's what you're after), but to each their own.

Not everybody likes the feel of the 34" scale length on most modern 4- or 5-string bass guitars. I certainly don't. The 30" scale of the Bass VI is much more manageable to me, plus I can work more across the strings (like a guitar, which I'm familiar with) than up the neck (like I'd have to on a traditional bass guitar).

A handful of thoughts, to contribute. I don’t often use the trem’ on my VI, and as another post mentioned, it seems to have a limited range on a VI. I have experimented with it, and found it interesting, but to be honest, it’s usually in the case.

I’d be curious whether the AVRI trem’ would be a drop in on my MIJ Bass VI. I have an AVRI trem’ on my Squier CV Jaguar, and it’s great.

I prefer 30” scale basses over 34”, myself. I have. CIJ Mustang, and a Warwick Corvette fretless which is also a 30” scale. I’ve also used the VI as a bass, and did ok with it. In that particular instance, I was asked to play bass at an RV Park jam and figured that I might have to fill some melodic, or even chordal gaps, so I took the VI, instead of one of my other basses. It is a bit toppy sounding, compared to the average P-Bass, but it wasn’t all that bad. I can get it pretty close to a J-Bass sound, but no one will mistake it for a P-Bass.

Of course, as a melodic lead instrument, the VI can do things that are hard to duplicate with another instrument. Spaghetti Western sounds just seem to come naturally. I’ve experimented with some Surf sounds, as well. Lots of reverb, and a careful touch will get some very interesting Surf sounds. I did a test recording of Secret Agent Man, where I doubled the lead guitar part (an octave below) on the final verse, and it sounded pretty cool. These are interesting instruments.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

Hey Ariel,
What did you use to smooth/round out the plate?

I think Dave Wronski did this to his trem as well.

Ariel wrote:

Ran, will a stock AVRI trem fit the Squier VI?

Anyway, here's what I did to mine shortly after it came in:
Smoothed this part
image
And smoothed this part (that elongated nut inside the collet spring)
image
I think it's better, but still meh...

futureboy wrote:

Hey Ariel,
What did you use to smooth/round out the plate?

I think Dave Wronski did this to his trem as well.

Yeah, I think I got the idea from him. I did that to my AVRI's as well.
I have multiple tools that can do the job so I don't remember exactly, but probably a progression of:
(securing the plate with clamps or screws), 1. grinding disc, carefully! just to bevel the hard edges 2. metal file, parallel 3. wet sandpaper on a flat piece of wood, from 80 to no more than 400.

Last edited: Mar 08, 2023 13:16:59

Since my last post in this thread, I did some work on my MIJ VI. I’ll spare you the details, but one of the mods was to add an AVRI trem’. It made a big difference, right out of the box. The MIJ tremolo was pretty limited, really allowing little more than a wobble, even if the arm was pushed all the way down to the pickguard.

With the AVRI trem’ it has much greater range, and returns to pitch reliably, when not in use. After installing it, I spent several hours with my VI, and found that I used the trem, pretty much the same as I would on my Jaguar. Because the MIJ bridge has a larger post size than a US bridge, the Fender nylon bushings don’t fit, so I wrapped the posts with electrical tape to limit the motion of the bridge, without completely restricting it.

I swapped an AVRI trem’ into the CV Squier I recently bought, and it was a drop-in situation. I had to retain the Squier screws, because they seemed to be slightly larger than the AVRI screws, but the trem’ itself fit perfectly. I would surmise that this would be true of the Squier IV, as well.

I should probably add that I use the trem’/vibrato tailpiece on any instrument quite subtly. I’m not a dive bomber, but use it more for subtle expression. Used that way, and with the rocking motion limited with bushings or even electrical tape, I like the Offset trem’. It’s one of Leo Fender’s inventions where a handful of simple bits can be brought together into an impressive whole.

TheCruelSea wrote:

I was using it all the time when I played it. Got the Squier version and swapped out the stock vibrato unit with a MIJ one. I also threw on the LaBella flatwounds so it has more tension than the stock strings.

I was using it exclusively in a Western Swing band to do all the tic-tac stuff and a few of the George Jones songs that had it as the lead instrument. Occasionally the band I was in would get a chance to do an instrumental or two while the singer got a refill or caught his breath. Lots of vibrato usage in those moments and then any solo that needed something a little extra.

It doesn't have a very big range (could be in part to the flatwounds) but it was just a hair past subtle. I could always hear it and so could the crowd. I really dig the Bass VI.

Slightly off topic but the one thing I find really funny about the Bass VI was after shows guys who said they were guitar players would come up to enthusiastically ask about what the heck I was playing. On the other hand I had never gotten so many people who said they were bass players coming up to give me a hard time for not playing a real bass.

The biggest problem with the MIJ trem’ I took out of my VI was the collet, which didn’t work very well, at all. I believe that with a StayTrem arm, this would be a useful trem’, although the range seemed to be considerably less than that of the AVRI trem’.

Like yourself, I use LaBella flats on my VI, and the sound is impressive. The audience reaction you describe is somewhat predictable. I’ve used my MIJ VI as a bass, and it acquitted itself quite well in that role. The Beatles used one on Let It Be, so I would say that it is a “real bass”, albeit one that generates plenty of treble overtones. If I was going to use it in the role of a regular bass, the tone knob would have to be rolled back a bit.

My sentiments are quite similar to Chiba’s, as expressed in his earlier post. I have some mild tendonitis in my left arm, and basses with a 34” scale tend to cause some problems. So, over ten years ago, I sold my J-Bass, my P-J Bass and my Warwick fretless. I replaced these with a Japanese-made Mustang bass, which I think is an excellent instrument. Later on, when my orthopedic surgeon suggested that long-scale basses would never be a part of my future, I bought a Warwick Custom Shop short scale fretless, which is awesome, and when I saw the limited run of MIJ Bass VI’s that came out nearly ten years ago, I pulled the trigger and got one in CAR, which I like much better than the Fender Custom Shop VI I used to own.

From the first time I saw the Bass VI, in a 1967 Fender brochure, it struck me as the perfect way to double on bass, and retain the familiar fingerings for the upper register. That was before I discovered reverb, and how to make twangy sounds, so you might say that I backed into the VI, but I dig the concept every bit as much as I did back in 1967.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

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