TDVT
Joined: Dec 06, 2022
Posts: 11
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Posted on Dec 06 2022 05:27 PM
Greetings to all from a new arrival & thanks in advance for your insights.
I am the owner of a 6G14A Blonde Showman, which I ended up with in a trade many years ago, primarily as a back-up bass amp, but sadly, that has sat unused for a long, long time.
Since my plan is to finally put the Showman back in service, I began researching and the Google led me here over & over again, so I am now aware that this is one of the most desirable surf amps.
Because of that, I thought this would be a great place to find out what this circuit is supposed to sound like from those that play them, as I have very little seat time with it.
This particular amp is fairly original internally, (unfortunately spray-painted black sometime in the '70s one would guess) with a filter-cap/bypass cap service done sometime before I got it ('98-ish) & a 3-wire power cord, otherwise mostly stock.
It powers on, all the controls work (just cleaned them), the trem circuit is functioning, but while the amp can be loud, it seems to have more break-up than I would expect from something of this wattage.
It plays clean up until about 5-1/2 then starts to get some real "hair" (testing w/P-90s). Similar sound on either channel. I had thought it would stay cleaner to high volume but as I said, I really not acquainted with the amp, so not really sure what to expect.
Any & all insight are appreciated!
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11010
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Dec 06 2022 05:57 PM
I'm no expert but I'll make a couple points. First, and probably the biggest factor, the p90's will push the amp harder than early 60's era Fender single coils.
You didnt mention what speakers you're using, but they contribute a lot to the headroom. I use EV's which are so efficient they just can't be broken up. JBL's surprisingly break up quite easily, but sound great still.
If you listen to first wave surf, when your amp was most prevalent, you'll most likely hear a fair amount of distortion on the guitar, just not what we've come to think of as distortion in later eras of rock and roll.
I suggest use or borrow a strat/Jazzmaster/Jaguar and see if you find it stays cleaner longer. Or, dial back the volume on your p90 guitar a bit.
Good luck and welcome to our little forum.
— Danny Snyder
Latest project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I'm back playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2764
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Dec 06 2022 07:08 PM
Good advice from Danny for sure.
Several other easy options to delay break up are to plug into input 2 on either channel or change the 1st stage preamp tube gain in either channel by replacing the 12AX7 with a 12AT7 which will lower the gain of that channel. Other than gain the two tubes are drop-in replacements.
Like Danny said, the choice of speakers is a big variable in the relative output of these amps. I also use and have been using EV's for ages. Love 'em.
You can also drop the pickup height in your guitar to reduce the signal from the guitar to the amp. That should help to clean up the sound quite a bit. My understanding is that Leo reduced the gain of input 2 to accommodate Gibson's higher output guitar pickups. I read that someplace.
My '62 Showman begins to get "urgent" around 5 or so but don't let the numbers on the controls fool you. It's all about what you feel and hear.
There are lots of gremmies hiding in those amplifiers that can rob one of the early Showman amps of their "magic." I suggest you get it to a competent and experienced tech and have him check out all the areas that may have drifted out of spec over the years. There is a lot more going on in there than just the filter caps. After all, 1998 was almost 25 years ago.
The blonde era Showman amps are deceptively loud when paired with the 2-15 cabinets with good speakers. The Fender dual speaker closed-back cabs throw the sound out a long way and often while standing close in front of one, you don't "get the message."
Welcome aboard, and where are you located?
Best reverbs,
ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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DeathTide
Joined: Apr 13, 2018
Posts: 1339
New Orleans
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Posted on Dec 06 2022 09:09 PM
Tech time x 1,000,000,000,000, it's not worth the risk.
And photos, including the guts, please! My '62 6g14-A also "gets dirty" at 5.
— Daniel Deathtide
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TDVT
Joined: Dec 06, 2022
Posts: 11
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 10:01 AM
Thanks for the insights & the welcome!
I am thinking from what you guys are saying that this amp is probably pretty close to operating correctly, can't fault it for needing some exercise after the extended hiatus.
Anyway, when I was testing it out I tried several cabinets; single EVM12, single EVM15 & a newer Ampeg 1-15. Not really distorted but not as clean as say a pedal steel player might like.
I realize that the cap job isn't recent (but the years tick by pretty quick, don't they?), so that will be the first service I will have done & see where things stand from there.
I have a couple other LONG term projects (well started but still on the bench) that this amp will pair well with, a 6G15 (using a Hoffman board) & a baritone Tele. Thinking that will sound pretty amazing.
I will try to post some gut shots later today.
Best, TD
PS I am in Vermont
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DannySnyder
Joined: Mar 02, 2006
Posts: 11010
Berkeley, CA
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 10:33 AM
Hi TD,
You're right, getting pedal steel clean is not what this amp does. I believe back then most pedal steels went direct into the board.
Vermont eh? There's one surf(ish) band based in Burlington I know of called Barbacoa, who are quite good. Not sure how active they are these days.
— Danny Snyder
Latest project - Now That's What I Call SURF
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"With great reverb comes great responsibility" - Uncle Leo
I'm back playing keys and guitar with Combo Tezeta
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synchro
Joined: Feb 02, 2008
Posts: 4124
Not One-Sawn, but Two-Sawn . . . AZ.
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 11:05 AM
TDVT wrote:
Thanks for the insights & the welcome!
I am thinking from what you guys are saying that this amp is probably pretty close to operating correctly, can't fault it for needing some exercise after the extended hiatus.
Anyway, when I was testing it out I tried several cabinets; single EVM12, single EVM15 & a newer Ampeg 1-15. Not really distorted but not as clean as say a pedal steel player might like.
I realize that the cap job isn't recent (but the years tick by pretty quick, don't they?), so that will be the first service I will have done & see where things stand from there.
I have a couple other LONG term projects (well started but still on the bench) that this amp will pair well with, a 6G15 (using a Hoffman board) & a baritone Tele. Thinking that will sound pretty amazing.
I will try to post some gut shots later today.
Best, TD
PS I am in Vermont
When I first came to this forum, riding on my pet Stegosaurus, I was assumed that the Brown Panel Showman was basically the same thing as a Black Panel Twin. Someone here kindly posted a link to this performance, by Freddie King and I could hear the difference. The Showman isn’t prone to heavy breakup, but it has a midrange grittiness that was really the backbone of the early Surf sound. The Presence control allows you to tailor the sound, but the real treasure is the amp itself, which has abundant character.
— The artist formerly known as: Synchro
When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.
Last edited: Dec 07, 2022 12:31:10
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1343
Memphis, TN
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 11:29 AM
Congrats on finally realizing what you have. I am looking forward to seeing photos, and hearing sound clips. You've got a wonderful amp there!
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
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TDVT
Joined: Dec 06, 2022
Posts: 11
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 01:19 PM
Barbacoa is still playing around, saw them just this summer at an outdoor music series. I don't know any of them (VT is a small place) but had a great time listening
As to how the amps sounds, "midrange grittiness" is a good description
Pics, as promised
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TDVT
Joined: Dec 06, 2022
Posts: 11
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 01:21 PM
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SixStringSurfer
Joined: Sep 23, 2014
Posts: 1343
Memphis, TN
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 01:24 PM
Thanks for sharing the photos. Any chance you can show us the head/face/cab?
— MooreLoud.com - A tribute to Dick Dale.
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2764
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 02:10 PM
Thanks for the pix. That reminds me of the '62 Showman that I have. I bought it off Ebay and when it showed up, it looked inside and outside as if it had lived it's previous 25 years in a chicken coop in Tennessee.
Restoring it was a big undertaking but at the same time a lot of fun. Somewhere I have a picture of it's "as it was" interior but I can't locate that picture at the moment. I was lucky enough to score a replacement face plate.
I do have this picture of one of its "little brothers" ('62 Bandmaster) restoration. I did the same work to the Showman.
'62 Bandmaster rebuild almost completed:
'62 Showman ready to install in the recovered cabinet:
Finished Showman/Katcher 1-15 open back cabinet/Peavy 15" steel guitar speaker:
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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DeathTide
Joined: Apr 13, 2018
Posts: 1339
New Orleans
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 03:07 PM
COOL PIX!!! That thing is clean. Mid-range gritty is exactly what it sounds like, that's a perfect description.
— Daniel Deathtide
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TDVT
Joined: Dec 06, 2022
Posts: 11
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 03:09 PM
I will have to take some photos of the head cabinet but it is a very sad situation of partially removed black spray paint, applied long before I got it. I have stripped a little more but I am not sure it will ever really come clean.
The grille was also spray painted , but gray. Someone must have really wanted a blackface amp in the worst way.
I have high hopes that mine will someday look like the Fender/Katcher combination above, beautiful rig!
How do you like the open back cab?
As primarily a bass player, I have a small assortment of ported cabs already, so I can mix & match, ignoring aesthetics.
In this instance, I was thinking about a Showman-sized matching cabinet but open-backed or maybe even with the 3 removable panels like Mojotone offers. I have another EVM12 that needs a home.
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kick_the_reverb
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 1313
Escondido, CA
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 03:14 PM
Your amp looks great. Under no circumstances, do not let anyone convince you to replace those blue molded caps.
If you had a bunch of yellow Astron caps there (which is not the case), you might have been faced with the dilemma whether to test each one and determine if they need replacement.
Anyway, if there is a specific, confirmed problem with your amp, have that specific issue fixed.
A good friend of mine had the misfortune of having an amp that had all its caps replaced with "Orange drops". It didn't sound good, at all. He replaced them with Sozo branded caps, and thinks that made an improvement, but decided the next one will have to be original.
Just for context, I supply the Showman backline for the SG101 convention, and I have several of these amps, so I have some personal experience (and compared my amps to several other friends' Showman amps, side by side).
Good luck and enjoy your amp.
Ran
TDVT wrote:
Barbacoa is still playing around, saw them just this summer at an outdoor music series. I don't know any of them (VT is a small place) but had a great time listening
As to how the amps sounds, "midrange grittiness" is a good description
Pics, as promised
— The Scimitars
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2764
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 03:59 PM
I like the open back cabinets a lot. My smaller cabs were the result of our playing at Smith's Olde Bar here in Atlanta. After lugging the dual fifteen cabinets up and down those steps, I decided that something had to give. I sat down after that and drew up a 1-15 cabinet with the basic measurements being a combination of the smaller Fender 2-12's averaged with the best possible yield out of a 4 x 8 sheet of 3/4" "Sandply" plywood from Home Depot. I made them so that I could go with closed backs if needed but after playing with them a few times with the backs open 1/3 of the area, I was convinced that they were a killer result of just plain dumb luck. I built several for the X-Rays, and shortly after that, Woody J suggested that I build him some with the depth extended from 11 1/2" to 16" or so and a closed back for his bass. We built those and wow! Were we ever delighted. I even built some for the Penetrators.
Sandply? OK, you are probably going "yuck." Well let me tell you Sandply builds a nice light cabinet and if you feel it lacking in high frequency, simply put several coats of epoxy (I use West System) inside and on the baffle. Oh and I never fiddle with the finger jointed parts, just West epoxy and my air nailer..... Built like a brick outhouse.
I know a lot of people don't care for the Orange Drop caps but I like 'em just fine.
Cheers,
Ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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TDVT
Joined: Dec 06, 2022
Posts: 11
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 05:54 PM
Thanks Ran for the insights regarding the original blue caps as compared to replacements. I was aware that the blue ones seem to have extended service life, (maybe even 60+ yrs, so far!) especially compared to the paper Astrons.
I came to appreciate that the hard way, some 20+ years ago, after I sent out an unaltered Princeton Reverb for general service as I was providing backline for some local music dates. When I got it back, ALL the caps had been replaced, needed or not, & the amp then had a new hum the tech couldn't fix.
Thankfully I did get all the parts back, but it was a lesson learned to proceed with caution.
Ed, great to hear that you like the open back cabinet as I am really leaning that direction.
I used to build speaker cabs & road cases long ago, so I have tried many types of materials over the years.
After many years of hauling 15" EV TL cabinets as a bass rig, which seemed lightweight themselves when I was in my 20s, I currently use some lightweight cabs loaded with Eminence Neo speakers & the cabs are built out of 1/2" Sandeply. There is added bracing with that thin of a shell material but they work great & are easy to move.
I have been to Smith's Olde Bar several times, can't imagine it was fun to load-in there.
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Padraig
Joined: Feb 26, 2022
Posts: 323
Dollars, Taxes
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Posted on Dec 07 2022 10:43 PM
Hello TDVT, I was wondering which Eminence Neo speakers you were using for your bass speaker boxes. I'm a bass player and am always looking for a lighter alternative. Back in my 20s I used an 18 inch with a 4x12 for bass. The old back won't stand for that anymore!
— Patrick
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TDVT
Joined: Dec 06, 2022
Posts: 11
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Posted on Dec 08 2022 07:29 AM
I had to look at them to remember, but my bass cabinets are loaded with Eminence KappaLITE 3012LF.
I was always a die-hard 15 guy, tried those too, but liked the 12s better.
Cabinets were "Greenboy" designs with a 6" mid (in just one cab) Greenboy was posting very detailed plans on the TalkBass forum years back, built mine from those.
They are not too large, very lightweight & sound good. I drive them with an Ampeg PF800 for a very small & lightweight rig
EDIT Just Googled his cabs, seems he has revised the plans since I built mine. I think mine was a 12/6 cube model. Probably still out there on the web somewhere
Last edited: Dec 08, 2022 07:36:09
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eddiekatcher
Joined: Mar 14, 2006
Posts: 2764
Atlanta, GA
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Posted on Dec 08 2022 10:42 AM
Off topic but, I've heard rumors that some bands have even loaded in and or out through the back door and down what is essentially a fire escape with their gear at Smith's Olde Bar. Scary too to be double parked in front of the load-in there on Piedmont Road....
Another fun load in and out in Atlanta is the Egyptian Ball Room at the Fox theater. They have a rickety old freight elevator in the back which is pretty spooky, but we had to load our light towers and trusses up and down the fire escape hanging precariously on the side of the building about three or four stories up because they were too long to fit in the freight elevator.
I hate heights.
Ed
— Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?
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