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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Do you have an always on delay or use slap back?

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So when I was using onboard delay, I would use an analog delay pedal for slap back to try and get closer to drip. Now I have an outboard unit. I can't really hear the slap back with it on. Is it typical to run reverb and delay together at all times for the typical surf sound? Or should I just relegate my delay to come in for special effects purposes on certain songs?

Guitarist for Black Valley Moon & Down By Law

The archetypal surf sound is a reverb tank. Smarter guys than me will chime in, but I think the delay unit (e.g. Echoplex) shows up after first wave surf's heyday. Listening to those older songs, I don't hear slapback like you ring in rockabilly records.

The Reverbivores - we're local favorites!

The reverb definitely blurs out the delay repeats making it hard to hear. I think it's worth trying some new delay settings but approaching it from a more subtle effect angle. A bit of delay with a tank can thicken the sound and add ambiance without sounding like normal repeats or slapback.

Some delays have multiple presets so you can one subtle one always on and another preset for the special effect.

-Pierre
The Obsidians! (Ottawa surf)
The Obsidians debut EP

For a traditional first wave sound, nothing is needed beyond guitar, tank and amp.
I like to set a subtle tape delay with the dwell and mix on my tank set at about 4 to 4 1/2 to get a surf meets the Shadows sound.
Listen to Ivan of the Madeira/Space Cossacks , Martin Cilia of the Atlantics and Georgia ' s own Eddie Katcher of the Surge for some great examples of reverb and delay together.

I use delay or slapback before hall reverb for some kind of drip.I don't have a reverb unit.If I had I would use only that!!!

https://www.youtube.com/user/jamess1400

WOW!

Hey Mike......Thank you!!!!

To be mentioned in the same sentence with Ivan and Martin is a compliment of the highest order. I really think the echo can be icing on the reverb cake.

We backed the reverb off quite a bit and went with the blackface Fenders for our side project instrumental cover band, The Racket Squad, to hopefully get an even bigger guitar tone. I even brought out my '68 Les Paul. Boy was that ever scary.

This June with the Blair/Pongracic Band and the Mystery Men, it's back to the "Big Blondes".........hahahha, I saw that post.

Thanks again, I really appreciate your kind words.

Reverbs! (with a bit of echo)

ed

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

eddiekatcher wrote:

This June with the Blair/Pongracic Band and the Mystery Men, it's back to the "Big Blondes".........hahahha, I saw that post.

Yayyy!

Wes
SoCal ex-pat with a snow shovel

DISCLAIMER: The above is opinion/suggestion only & should not be used for mission planning/navigation, tweaking of instruments, beverage selection, or wardrobe choices.

eddiekatcher wrote:

This June with the Blair/Pongracic Band and the Mystery Men, it's back to the "Big Blondes".........hahahha, I saw that post.

Love the blondes and that will be a great show but I'm also interested in seeing that other project of yours! Ed dusts off the old Les Paul...got my attention sir.

http://www.facebook.com/CrazyAcesMusic
http://www.youtube.com/user/crazyacesrock
http://www.reverbnation.com/crazyacesmusic

Big time fun at the Star Bar in June for sure Jeff. Maybe we can put together a Crazy Aces/Racket Squad show. That would be great to share a stage with you guys. Been way too long.

The LP was an 11th hour decision. As the RS was working on material, I kept bringing out different guitars, trying to get a feel for what worked. Went through several of the Jazzmasters, the Jaguar, the Mosrite and the 355. It was obvious that the 355 could do the job and certainly looked and sounded different from what we normally do, but when I finally pulled out the LP, we all looked at each other with that "holy cow" expression. I had not played that guitar on stage in almost twenty years. It really is king of the hill.

ed

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

Is your LP a Gold Top or Custom? I had a '68 GT many years ago that I wish I'd never parted with.

All opinions expressed by this poster are well thought out and based on actual experience and/or scientific experimentation, except for those which are knee-jerk reactions or good sounding fantasies.

I've actually had two gold tops, a Studio Custom, and the Custom that I played for the Kavarna show. My first gold top was also a '68, a real early P-90 equipped one with a huge telephone pole neck.........I hated it. Had a local guitar builder (Jay Ryan, now deceased) shave the neck to my early '60's SG specs and I liked it much better. Also had a 70's gold top with the small HB pickups and it was pretty nice. But the Custom that I still have was also acquired in '68. Originally it was a "fretless wonder" but like most everyone else, I thought those tiny frets were the reason I couldn't play (hahahahahaha on that) and had it refretted to normal (at that time) frets. Over the years it has been broken in half once (headless) refinished twice and I have no idea how many pickups have found their way in there. It's replaced neck is a multi-piece all maple lamination with ebony board per my request when Gibson replaced the neck. Odd ball combo but I like it a lot. I like to tell people that the only original part is the pickup selector switch.

Me too on selling off the 68 Gold top, mine was super light. I believe that local hot picker and music store owner George Coates still has my former Gold Top. By the time he got it, I'd already sanded the finish off, but that's another story altogether.

ed

Traditional........speak softly and play through a big blonde amp. Did I mention that I still like big blonde amps?

Back to the original topic, I keep a delay on all the time in my rock band. Just barely there with a short delay and a single repeat. I haven't landed on what gear to use with the upcoming surf band. I don't have an off board tank, so the reverb will most likely be some kind of digital pedal. I'm sure it's going to be an evolving mix of gear.

All opinions expressed by this poster are well thought out and based on actual experience and/or scientific experimentation, except for those which are knee-jerk reactions or good sounding fantasies.

Back to the OP's topic:
When you plug your guitar into a real spring tank and a good amp, anything else is gilding the lily. If you aren't happy with the sound, it's likely the speaker and cab that is letting you down.
Before I put together a 'canonical' surf guitar rig, I used an Echoplex into a Twin for a really good alternate sound complimentary to the lead guitar's Boss FRV1 into a Fender solid state amp. I actually sounded better than that rig as my signal chain was all tube and tape compression.
There are a million ways to skin a cat but if you have a stand alone tank, you don't need to fuss.

Squink Out!

Depends on song. For the more modern stuff (80s and up), and a large portion of my originals I use delay plus reverb. If I'm playing Pipeline, Miserlou, Latin'ia, then I use only reverb (anywhere from 3 to 11 - if your amp goes to 11)

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SpaceTimC wrote:

...I think the delay unit (e.g. Echoplex) shows up after first wave surf's heyday. ..

Great question, which was first delay or reverb. The Ventures' Walk Don't Run (Aug. 1960) used plenty of delay on the lead. The signature tone of Hank Marvin and The Shadows was based on delay. Both antedated The Belair's Mr. Moto, but not The Fireball's Torquay (1959). If you date surf guitar from Torquay, reverb was first. If you date it from Mr. Moto, delay came first.

As far as which is better, it depends on the song. Sometimes both work well but of course the result is different. Here are two recordings I made of "Dark Eyes," one with strong spring reverb (and nothing else) and the other with strong delays (and a touch of reverb), and the same accompaniment. The reverb version is on Youtube:
https://youtu.be/l1knSE4fwAw

The mostly delay version is on the new "Guitar Fun Version Two" CD you can stream from Insanitizers.com (scroll down past the Soundcloud panels) or from Spotify. It may be on Youtube eventually.

Insanitizers! http://www.insanitizers.com

Last edited: Sep 29, 2017 13:06:22

Im really late to reply to this topic, but i have been using the Mystery Brain Tape Delay with the SurfyBear compact on my pedal board. I have been placing the reverb before the delay because i wanted to try to fatten up the drip. I do dial in a little slapback to get the subtle "thud" effect. But im concerned i might get more of a splash effect than a drip.

I use Aqua Puss but not as always on, some tunes need it where you what more “space” some tunes demand more focused sound and I switch it off.
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i was in a rockabilly band so my reverb tank ran into a deluxe memory man then to the amp. i still primarily played reverb only with a pair of mosrites. i got a little tired of the slapback sound pretty quick playing with all those rockabilly bands, so I used it sparingly.

but reverb into analog echo is a beautiful sound, just mind the clipping.

i ended up placing the mystery brain before the reverb. i noticed it muddied up when placed after the delay. plus to fatten up the reverb i got the catalinbread formula 5f6. thats the bassman overdrive. so that going thru the mysterybrain preamp thru the echo, to the reverb into my twin got me the tone i was looking for. now i just need to get a surfytrem and my board is done..

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