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SurfGuitar101 Forums » Gear »

Permalink Anyone ever play a Polytone?

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So, I was bumming around a used record store, of all places, and spied a large Polytone amp. I had played through the Mini-Brute II before and thought it was kinda remarkable in that Roland Cube sorta way. But, anyhow, I made them a ridiculous offer on the amp and they accepted. Okay, I guess I am a Polytone owner now.

It has a cool Japanese solid-state vibe that I actually dig a lot (although this one was made in Hollywood, CA.) It is really clean but compresses a bunch. Reverb and vibrato are excellent. Has plenty of power. Not too huge (although it is large.) It just sounds decidedly un-modern and I might end up keeping it around for something. It might make a cool keyboard amp, I am thinking.

Anyhow, there is almost nothing on the WWW about this 2X15 SS relic. Anybody know anything?

EDIT: Including some pictures. Not my amp, but identical model and condition, etc.

image

image

image

SSIV

Last edited: Jun 20, 2020 03:42:06

When I was playing serious Jazz guitar I got a Polytone Mini Brute. What a great sounding amp and I really regret selling it. Some of the best clesn tones I ever heard. They are legendary with many jazz players. The great Jimmy Bruno used to play one.

I'm not familiar with that model, but I bet it sounds gret. Sounds like you got real bargain. congrats.

I think the reason you can't find out much about that model is that it probably was not very popular. The main appeal to the Mini Brute was you could get a great tube like clean tone in a relatively small and light package. You could get a great tone without lugging around a huge heavy Twin Reverb or Roland Jazz Chorus. A big deal to gigging jazz guitarists, especially in NYC.

Played through a mini brute a handful of times. It was good for capturing that Jim Hall Concierto tone. It was the Jazz sound for a while. Cool find.

Rev

Canadian Surf

http://www.urbansurfkings.com/

Last edited: Jun 20, 2020 10:26:05

Nice...you can never go wrong with an older USA built amp like that Polytone especially given that you got a killer deal on it. Not exactly the most portable amp, but if you are going for a big, fat, clean sound that'll do it....2x15's also....I'd love to know how it would sound hooked up to an outboard tube reverb spring tank? I would guess that a tube driven outboard tank would also give that SS amp a bit more tonal "character".

I had the Polytone 103 throughout college - a jazz program - and I too am sorry it’s gone. Wonderful clean machine. You can dig in all you want and will only get pure cleanliness.

image

Squid From Madrid - New Single on Bandcamp
MB Website

I have indeed hooked my reverb unit up to it. It sounds awfully nice.

The amp on its own has plenty of character. The vibrato (tremolo) circuit is really extremely cool. Not quite brownface frequency oscillation but not just a volume-based oscillation, either. Sort of a combination of both. Really nice. It is very hard to describe the overall sound of the thing. I guess "jazzy but not dark-jazzy" would do. Not much help, there.

I found a catalog listing on Reverb that includes this amp. It is a crap image but this is all I can find as far as info:

image

It is the 215-300, by the way. And voiced for either oragn, guitar, or accordion, since the control plate is totally different for bass. A little shocked that the amp drives a 2-Ohm load. Whoa.

It also has a little switch on the bottom rear that says "Room EQ" Switching it seems to have little or no effect to my ears. And, also weirdly, the preamp input channels have three-way switches that say "Dark" and "Bright" on the top and bottom poles. However, there is a middle detent position also with no marking. Um...?

Surfadelphia wrote:

Nice...you can never go wrong with an older USA built amp like that Polytone especially given that you got a killer deal on it. Not exactly the most portable amp, but if you are going for a big, fat, clean sound that'll do it....2x15's also....I'd love to know how it would sound hooked up to an outboard tube reverb spring tank? I would guess that a tube driven outboard tank would also give that SS amp a bit more tonal "character".

SSIV

Last edited: Jun 20, 2020 14:29:13

Apropos of nothing in particular, it just hit me what this amp reminds me of a little bit...a big, old Standel SS combo I tried out once. Yes, it is in that ballpark, with really smooth sound, super clean, and not a ton of high end. That one, like the Polytone, had 2X12 arrangement (I think) but the thing is voiced similarly. Both are midrange monsters and I am digging mids the most these days. (Maybe that is all I can hear after playing so much only two feet from the crash? Haha! One day I will hide that basher's crash...mark my words!)

Still, unlike that Standel, this one compresses notes markedly at almost any volume (more at higher output, of course.)

SSIV

Been playing this amp on and off this weekend. I'll be damned, this is actually not a bad amplifier at all! I only bought as a curiosity or maybe to convert to bass or something but I am really liking it more and more as is. Whattayaknow? Wish I had found this years ago. Seems to agree with pedals and outboard reverb quite well, also.

Definitely going to use at a practice. It will be great to save tubes.

That is all.

SSIV

I had a buddy in High School who had the basic 1-12” model back in the mid/late 70’s. He played it in church, Jazz gigs, and with a New Wave band that he had with his brothers. He definitely got his money’s worth out of it. He really loved that thing.

-Cheers, Clark-

-Less Paul, more Reverb-

Polytone built high quality amps - In North Hollywood CA. I know a bit about them, having owned a few, and later buying the contents of the abandoned storage unit they threw everything into when they quit manufacturing in the US and essentially started reselling the stuff they had made off-shore. It's a too-long story, but here's a little:

Polytone was founded by Tommy Gumina, who was a jazz accordion player. Don't laugh - the guy had more chops than 99% of us on this forum. He swung, and had a commanding knowledge of jazz. He played with Buddy DeFranco and Willie Smith in the early 60s, cut a nice album with Art Pepper, and a solo one in the 50s and I don't know what else. Probably played with Joe Pass too, who helped finance the start of the company I think. He certainly was a loyal user of their amps, along with the great bass player Ray Brown. One item in that storage unit was Tommy's rolodex (pre-iPhone phone number file). It was a Who's Who of jazz royalty.

Back to the story - Tommy wanted an amp that could faithfully amplify the accordion, which has a large range, and not distort. Looking back at the amps available in the late 50's early 60's, that didn't really exist. Maybe Standel was starting up around then? Anyway, Tommy learned about electronics and designed his own amps, amps HE liked, and then started selling them.

I would say the hallmark of these amps is their flat sound, a result of the EQ he used. The sound we know and love so well, from Fender, Marshall, and Vox et al, is the happy result of super cheap-to-build tone controls (few parts). That sound is not flat, it has a dip in the mid-range, the famous "scooped" mids. It ain't hifi. Tommy used tone controls that were more like those on hifi units (Baxandhall circuit). When the knobs were at 12:00, it was flat. You could cut or boost the treble and bass from there. He coupled this with a clean preamp and power amp in solid cabinets (not light!) with neutral-sounding speakers (most I've seen were Eminence).

So jazz guys loved them, it sounded more like their un-amplified jazz boxes than the rock amps. Polytone made one tube amp in their history trying to appeal to the rock crowd in the early 80's, called the Fusion. Took cues from Boogie, 100 watts in a 1-12" combo, with two channels and a very interesting voicing switch. Maintenance nightmare. If you know where one is, let me know please!

Back to the solid state amps: The tone controls had a pretty good range, + or - 15/20db, not impacting the mid-range. So you can approximate (but not duplicate) the sound of a "normal" amp by turning up the treble and bass. Treble a bit more than bass.

They'll never sound like a Showman, but they can sound good for sure, and as noted, very clean. Reverb was a weak spot, they used small tanks and circuits that often failed. But they're easy to fix if you can find someone who knows transistor technology. I would recommend replacing all the electrolytic capacitors since they're so old at this point, it should help. Although it may remove the compression you mentioned which was not built into the design. They were made to put out exactly what was put in, only louder!

Finally, FUN FACT: The Polytone name and logo is a reference to jazz accordion thinking. You can play cool jazz chords on an accordion by playing two chord buttons at once, hence poly (more than one) tone (or button)! So the D/C7 (D Major chord over a C7 chord) in the logo would be some kind of, I don't know, C9#11? C-E-G-Bb-D-F#-A. Or maybe D is the root? Somebody smarter than me can name that chord. Same with the F#/C7.

There you have it - more than you wanted to know!

(Maybe that is all I can hear after playing so much only two feet from the crash? Haha! One day I will hide that basher's crash...mark my words!)

Uh-Oh

Scott
http://thesurfsideiv.com/
https://www.facebook.com/surfsideiv/

ScottyBravo wrote:

(Maybe that is all I can hear after playing so much only two feet from the crash? Haha! One day I will hide that basher's crash...mark my words!)

Uh-Oh

Scotty:

Haha! All in good fun. Though I am deaf as post beyond 7,000 Hz, which has been bumming me out lately.

But, hey, this isn't Surfdrums101.com! I thought we had a safe space here. Do they let anyone join? What's up with that?!

In all seriousness, maybe I should have stood on the other side. It was an artifact of our practice space that I just happened to be sitting on top of the drums. (Now why you are not hard of hearing is another question.) Actually, live, I stand in the same place, come to think of it. I think I gotta move over a few feet.

One day I will hide it, though. Just to see what happens.

SSIV

Last edited: Jun 25, 2020 00:08:06

geoale01 wrote:

Polytone built high quality amps - In North Hollywood CA. I know a bit about them, having owned a few, and later buying the contents of the abandoned storage unit they threw everything into when they quit manufacturing in the US and essentially started reselling the stuff they had made off-shore. It's a too-long story, but here's a little:

Polytone was founded by Tommy Gumina, who was a jazz accordion player. Don't laugh - the guy had more chops than 99% of us on this forum. He swung, and had a commanding knowledge of jazz. He played with Buddy DeFranco and Willie Smith in the early 60s, cut a nice album with Art Pepper, and a solo one in the 50s and I don't know what else. Probably played with Joe Pass too, who helped finance the start of the company I think. He certainly was a loyal user of their amps, along with the great bass player Ray Brown. One item in that storage unit was Tommy's rolodex (pre-iPhone phone number file). It was a Who's Who of jazz royalty.

Back to the story - Tommy wanted an amp that could faithfully amplify the accordion, which has a large range, and not distort. Looking back at the amps available in the late 50's early 60's, that didn't really exist. Maybe Standel was starting up around then? Anyway, Tommy learned about electronics and designed his own amps, amps HE liked, and then started selling them.

I would say the hallmark of these amps is their flat sound, a result of the EQ he used. The sound we know and love so well, from Fender, Marshall, and Vox et al, is the happy result of super cheap-to-build tone controls (few parts). That sound is not flat, it has a dip in the mid-range, the famous "scooped" mids. It ain't hifi. Tommy used tone controls that were more like those on hifi units (Baxandhall circuit). When the knobs were at 12:00, it was flat. You could cut or boost the treble and bass from there. He coupled this with a clean preamp and power amp in solid cabinets (not light!) with neutral-sounding speakers (most I've seen were Eminence).

So jazz guys loved them, it sounded more like their un-amplified jazz boxes than the rock amps. Polytone made one tube amp in their history trying to appeal to the rock crowd in the early 80's, called the Fusion. Took cues from Boogie, 100 watts in a 1-12" combo, with two channels and a very interesting voicing switch. Maintenance nightmare. If you know where one is, let me know please!

Back to the solid state amps: The tone controls had a pretty good range, + or - 15/20db, not impacting the mid-range. So you can approximate (but not duplicate) the sound of a "normal" amp by turning up the treble and bass. Treble a bit more than bass.

They'll never sound like a Showman, but they can sound good for sure, and as noted, very clean. Reverb was a weak spot, they used small tanks and circuits that often failed. But they're easy to fix if you can find someone who knows transistor technology. I would recommend replacing all the electrolytic capacitors since they're so old at this point, it should help. Although it may remove the compression you mentioned which was not built into the design. They were made to put out exactly what was put in, only louder!

Finally, FUN FACT: The Polytone name and logo is a reference to jazz accordion thinking. You can play cool jazz chords on an accordion by playing two chord buttons at once, hence poly (more than one) tone (or button)! So the D/C7 (D Major chord over a C7 chord) in the logo would be some kind of, I don't know, C9#11? C-E-G-Bb-D-F#-A. Or maybe D is the root? Somebody smarter than me can name that chord. Same with the F#/C7.

There you have it - more than you wanted to know!

Thanks for the info. I did reach out to my amp guy about replacing the electrolytic capacitors. Here is what he replied:

On Jun 20, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Trey Rhodes wrote:

Lowell:

I recently purchased a Polytone 215-300 combo amp. It is a big monster with a power section in the lower part and a preamp section upper.

It is solid state. Sounds really nice! It is from the 1970s, I am guessing, and the electrolytic caps, at least, should be looked at.

Do you work on these kinds of amps? it is an oddball, so I thought I would check.

By the way, I think I found a schematic for the power section and the preamp (which appears common to many Polytone designs.) It is attached.

Trey

Info - Hunt Amplification
Jun 20, 2020, 4:38 PM

Hey Trey,

If it’s working and sounds good, I wouldn’t worry too much about anything.

If you do want to overhaul it at some point, a re-cap and any other necessary maintenance will likely run no more than $200.

But I wouldn’t stress about it at this point if it’s working fine. I have seen some of those come in with blown power amps - at that point I usually just purchase an equivalent power modern Hifi power amp— better sound and improved reliability over the relatively crude original power amp design. Cheaper as well. The poly tone sound is primarily from the preamp anyway, the power amp is just a linear amplifier.

Hope this helps. All the best,

Lowell

Hunt Amplification LLC
2202 W. Lone Cactus Dr. Suite #4
Phoenix, AZ 85027
623-236-9096
www.huntamps.com

SSIV

Last edited: Jun 25, 2020 00:22:22

Here is a Fusion for sale:

https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m83161442606/

Good luck.

geoale01 wrote:

Polytone built high quality amps - In North Hollywood CA. I know a bit about them, having owned a few, and later buying the contents of the abandoned storage unit they threw everything into when they quit manufacturing in the US and essentially started reselling the stuff they had made off-shore. It's a too-long story, but here's a little:

Polytone was founded by Tommy Gumina, who was a jazz accordion player. Don't laugh - the guy had more chops than 99% of us on this forum. He swung, and had a commanding knowledge of jazz. He played with Buddy DeFranco and Willie Smith in the early 60s, cut a nice album with Art Pepper, and a solo one in the 50s and I don't know what else. Probably played with Joe Pass too, who helped finance the start of the company I think. He certainly was a loyal user of their amps, along with the great bass player Ray Brown. One item in that storage unit was Tommy's rolodex (pre-iPhone phone number file). It was a Who's Who of jazz royalty.

Back to the story - Tommy wanted an amp that could faithfully amplify the accordion, which has a large range, and not distort. Looking back at the amps available in the late 50's early 60's, that didn't really exist. Maybe Standel was starting up around then? Anyway, Tommy learned about electronics and designed his own amps, amps HE liked, and then started selling them.

I would say the hallmark of these amps is their flat sound, a result of the EQ he used. The sound we know and love so well, from Fender, Marshall, and Vox et al, is the happy result of super cheap-to-build tone controls (few parts). That sound is not flat, it has a dip in the mid-range, the famous "scooped" mids. It ain't hifi. Tommy used tone controls that were more like those on hifi units (Baxandhall circuit). When the knobs were at 12:00, it was flat. You could cut or boost the treble and bass from there. He coupled this with a clean preamp and power amp in solid cabinets (not light!) with neutral-sounding speakers (most I've seen were Eminence).

So jazz guys loved them, it sounded more like their un-amplified jazz boxes than the rock amps. Polytone made one tube amp in their history trying to appeal to the rock crowd in the early 80's, called the Fusion. Took cues from Boogie, 100 watts in a 1-12" combo, with two channels and a very interesting voicing switch. Maintenance nightmare. If you know where one is, let me know please!

Back to the solid state amps: The tone controls had a pretty good range, + or - 15/20db, not impacting the mid-range. So you can approximate (but not duplicate) the sound of a "normal" amp by turning up the treble and bass. Treble a bit more than bass.

They'll never sound like a Showman, but they can sound good for sure, and as noted, very clean. Reverb was a weak spot, they used small tanks and circuits that often failed. But they're easy to fix if you can find someone who knows transistor technology. I would recommend replacing all the electrolytic capacitors since they're so old at this point, it should help. Although it may remove the compression you mentioned which was not built into the design. They were made to put out exactly what was put in, only louder!

Finally, FUN FACT: The Polytone name and logo is a reference to jazz accordion thinking. You can play cool jazz chords on an accordion by playing two chord buttons at once, hence poly (more than one) tone (or button)! So the D/C7 (D Major chord over a C7 chord) in the logo would be some kind of, I don't know, C9#11? C-E-G-Bb-D-F#-A. Or maybe D is the root? Somebody smarter than me can name that chord. Same with the F#/C7.

There you have it - more than you wanted to know!

SSIV

I just came across this thread, LHR. That’s quite the buy. I don’t believe that I’ve ever actually played a Polytone. I loved the sound Joe Pass got. Back when I was determined to be the next Joe Pass, I was usually broke, so I never got to own one of the amps, although I did have an Ibanez JP-90 guitar for a while.

Amps are an endless source of fascination for me and, while I am basically a tube amp guy, I really appreciate that quality solid state amps exist and can sound great. The Henrikson amps, built in Colorado, are a wonderful contemporary example of the art.

The artist formerly known as: Synchro

When Surf Guitar is outlawed only outlaws will play Surf Guitar.

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